frost 1 #26 August 30, 2006 If you feel that he is "coming across as youve got it covered....all figured out......I can handle it......thanks for your opinion......" then why not just let the man do what he wants instead of aggravating him by telling him what to do and what not to do, calling his instructors "fucking idiots"? You are coming off like you feel that you know so much more then he does... Do you REALLY think you can get your point accross to ANYONE talking like that? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MrBrant 0 #27 August 30, 2006 QuotePersonally I think that having it trail back behind you is not a really good idea and here is why. The added drag of the bag and pilot chute will cause the slider to increase the wear on the lines where your slider sits. Also this setup has the potential of entanglement with your body or your crw partner. If it were entangle with you then your main may be trailing (still attached to you) when you cut away from a wrap or canopy colision or collapse. .... I can see it happening where you would fly close to the wind sock and that stuff would get entangled and you would pull the windsock down. Now the DZO is pissed at you and throws you off the dz, and you go speeding off in your car. The local cop that stakes out the DZ looking for pothead freflyers sees you speeding and pulls you over. Now you are pissed off because the cop pulled you over and you have been thrown off the dz so you mouth off to him like an idiot. The cop drags you out of the car through the window by your trachea (throat) and beats you to deat with his bag light. Now do you see how your home made RDS can kill you?! guess i didn't think that far ahead! Seriously though, snagging obstacles on landing is one thing I hadn't considered. Our landing area is very open, but there is couple windsocks, and we sometimes put blades out too. That could be a real concern. I guess it could happen with a conventional system too - but you'd have to be swooping in a helluva wing-over! I have been considering the entanglement-with-body issue over the past little while. However, I honestly can't think of how it could happen (doesn't mean it can't of course - shit happens on a skydive). I've done a few hard-as-possible spirals with it hooked up, but didn't get anywhere near getting wrapped up. One thing I just thought of was some really hard sachey's. I'll have to try some this weekend to see how close it comes. Have their been any documented cases of this that you know of? The system is always unhooked for crw dives (that was the main point of the system), so i'm not worried about it getting int he way there - just the opposite. But, it could get messy in the event of a canopy collision down low - that's a very good point as well. Considering this, I'll definitely never jump this at a larger dropzone. Brant Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vectracide 0 #28 August 30, 2006 Why? Because he asked.....pretty simple. If he gets aggravated by me calling his instructors "fucking idiots", that's his problem. Its not his fault he was given such poor safety techinques, but at least now he knows to question peoples advice, or instruction. Anyones. If it doesn't seem right......question it. Some people don't even know that they don't even know. Well...now he does. Sorry if it doesn't meet your description of constructive criticism, I'm a little rough around the edges when it comes to stupid people teaching. More and more, it seems that the stupid, arrogant, and digit's seem to be the ones giving the most advice. Usually totally wrong. As far as me knowing so much more than he does....well yes, I do. And there are many many many more than probably forgotton more than I know. Its goes on and on. Its a tiered system of learning in this sport.....each time you get to another level...you realize that you don't know shit.... ------------------------------ Controlled and Deliberate..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
marks 0 #29 August 30, 2006 Quoteeach time you get to another level...you realize that you don't know shit.... very true.. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites frost 1 #30 August 30, 2006 QuoteIf he gets aggravated by me calling his instructors "fucking idiots", that's his problem. Its not his fault he was given such poor safety techinques, but at least now he knows to question peoples advice, or instruction. Anyones. If it doesn't seem right......question it. Some people don't even know that they don't even know. Well...now he does. Sorry if it doesn't meet your description of constructive criticism, I'm a little rough around the edges when it comes to stupid people teaching. Very, very arrogant. I guess the safety of internet allows you to make such statements and call people "fucking idiots" with no caution. Oh well - i guess thats your thing. More power to you. Quoteeach time you get to another level...you realize that you don't know shit.... And yet you still give advice... QuoteMore and more, it seems that the stupid, arrogant, and digit's seem to be the ones giving the most advice. Usually totally wrong. As far as me knowing so much more than he does....well yes, I do. LOL That IS funny. Considering that you are just a season of jumps ahead of the original poster. and as far as "Why? Because he asked.....pretty simple." He didnt ask for your opinion on what he should or should not do. He asked about RDS design. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites marks 0 #31 August 30, 2006 Quoteeach time you get to another level...you realize that you don't know shit.... -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- And yet you still give advice... so maybe, nobody should give advice.... I'm not joining anyones side here, Im just pointing out the fact that there are LOTS AND LOTS of peeps that DO take the advice. and honestly, I don't 100% agree with this guys action, but who am I to judge him. teach him and give him advice, whatever your advice may be.. and if you want to PM me about anything, even if you feel I made you look like and ass, when I was only giving "advice", I unblocked it, because I beleive you can't be that bad of a guy, just take it easy on me, Im human also. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites bob.dino 1 #32 August 30, 2006 I don't know anything about RDS', so I'll just comment on this: Quote3. Pull altitudes. No, i'm not throwing at 1800 feet - I apologize if I miscommunicated. I jump at a 182 dropzone, where our ceiling is 9000 feet. SOP is breakoff at 3500, pull at 2300. This is what is taught right from the get-go for the A-license. Before the RDS i was under canopy of 1900, after it's been 1800. That's still damn low. In Australia the minimum legal canopy-open-and-flying altitude is 1800ft. I can understand why you're doing it, but you really should be aware that with the additional complications of an RDS, 1800ft is not a lot of time to sort out any problems you might encounter. You're going to have to be very heads-up, aware, and decisive if things go to shit. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites frost 1 #33 August 30, 2006 When asked for, good advice is GREAT and very much appreciated. However, when advice was not asked, but was given anyway or given on subject not originally asked about, then it's bound to result in negativity. When the advice giver starts by saying "you dont know better or you dont understand or your experience is not good enough" then the BEST advice will fall on deaf ears. Demeaning someone else's opinion or expertise is THE worst way to get your point across. Basic human psychology man. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites golowjoe 0 #34 August 31, 2006 Last reply , Yhe lengths are 18" for the 2 and 6' for the single one . Come on Mark I thought you knew evrything . The other problem that could arise with leaving the set up hooked up is this . Have you flared it real deep almost to stalling and seen what happens to all that stuff trailing ? What happens if you do that at 200 feet to avoid a collision and it wraps around your lines ? Could be a bad situation . Again be very careful . You are treading in shark infested waters here . Joe Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites marks 0 #35 August 31, 2006 QuoteYhe lengths are 18" for the 2 and 6' for the single one . Come on Mark I thought you knew evrything . c'mon Joe!! you know not to play that game with me... of course I know what I know! I also KNOW it is 18" and even woke up in the middle of the night relizing I said 12". couldnt sleep after that and was late to work and got in a fight with my boss!!!! SO BITE ME!!!!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites davelepka 4 #36 August 31, 2006 QuoteHe didnt ask for your opinion on what he should or should not do. He asked about RDS design. This is where you lose your footing. Yeah, maybe a guy could get more of his point across if he was nicer, or used some tact, but the bigger picture is that if a guy is making what you believe to be a mistake, with possible dire results, that you do need to speak up, and let your thoughts be known, regardless if the original poster asked that specific question or not. The simple fact that this guy is asking some simple operational questions about a persuit that is at best ill advised, indicated that he may actaully believe that his course of action is OK. There's always the possibility that when you speak up, and point out the pitfalls of what's going on, the guy may just say, "Holy shit dude, you're right, I never thought of that. I'm going to attach my bag and PC to the top of canopy like a normal person, and start getting my PC out a little sooner". The other side is the implied consent that comes along with offering advice. Other jumpers may read the thread, see the situation presented, and if there are no objections, perhaps even seemingly encouraging advice from other posters, then it seems as if the situation is A-OK, and others may attempt to follow suit. This is why you log on, post your thoughts, and others can make their own choices as to what to read and what to believe. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites freeflyn 0 #37 August 31, 2006 Please evaluate what you are doing…… You want an RDS not to enhance performance, but to decrease your visual obstructions while under canopy. However you jump at a C-182 dz, and you have indicated you would not use this system at a larger dropzone. This really makes no sense to me…. I think the point everyone is concerned about here is that you want to jump a system that increases the probability of having a malfunction, not to mention the types of malfunctions. That probability goes up exponentially when you become a test jumper. Secondly you are deploying extremely low, I understand that you are not getting out of the plane until 9000ft and you want to get all the freefall you can. However put things into perspective, if you deploy 1000ft higher you lose 5 seconds of freefall. When you have a malfunction this 1000ft can be the difference between life and death. So to recap: 1) you are using an experimental RDS 2) you are deploying low 3) little experience (for what you are doing). During the time I have been in this sport people never die because of one thing, it usually takes three (sometimes more) mistakes or errors and their family and friends are left behind. I think it is great that you enjoy trying to improve on existing technology, but maybe you should focus on learning the basics of survival first. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mnealtx 0 #38 September 2, 2006 QuoteI don't know anything about RDS', so I'll just comment on this: Quote3. Pull altitudes. No, i'm not throwing at 1800 feet - I apologize if I miscommunicated. I jump at a 182 dropzone, where our ceiling is 9000 feet. SOP is breakoff at 3500, pull at 2300. This is what is taught right from the get-go for the A-license. Before the RDS i was under canopy of 1900, after it's been 1800. That's still damn low. In Australia the minimum legal canopy-open-and-flying altitude is 1800ft. I can understand why you're doing it, but you really should be aware that with the additional complications of an RDS, 1800ft is not a lot of time to sort out any problems you might encounter. You're going to have to be very heads-up, aware, and decisive if things go to shit. Agreed - he's a couple hundred feet low according to the SIM (2500 ft AGL for B license holders)Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites MrBrant 0 #39 September 5, 2006 Have one more question, for those willing to answer: Why does the bridal extension (from the d-bag, down to the 2 lines from the slider) have to be so long? Why can't the 2 lines merge at the d-bag, say 3 feet from the slider (just a bit longer than the cigar rolled canopy) It seems like a good idea to have it above your deploying canopy, but is there any proven reason it has to be that long? I've got my line pretty long (about 5 feet), but there's a guy on my DZ who has it on his VX, with only about 2 feet of extension (just enough to let the canopy out of the bag). He seems not to be suffering any ill effects yet. So, that's got me wondering why the long line? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites chachi 0 #40 September 6, 2006 Jumps : 230 License: B 5445 In sport: 2 years Guys with exactly this much knowledge should not be inventing gear. RDS is useless to have on your canopy unless swooping competitively for the exact reason of complicating something that does not need to be complicated. I hope you stay safe. Please stop while you are ahead and focus this much effort into your skydives. It will get you further ahead than an RDS for a 150+ sq. foot canopy. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites golowjoe 0 #41 September 6, 2006 The short line will cause the d-bag to burn holes in the top skin on the center cell during deployment . If it hasn't already happened it will . There is a reason certain things are done and unless you can affford to buy new chutes all the time maybe you should listen to people when they tell you this is the way it is done . Trying not to be an as* but you are making it hard . Again be careful . Joe Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites MrBrant 0 #42 September 7, 2006 ok, thanks joe - i thought it might be something to do with that. I'm not questioning how things are done because I think i know better (FAR from it). I just wanted to know the reason behind it. I will be careful. Thank-you again for the info Joe, hope to meet you one day - I'll buy the beer! And thanks to everyboydy else who chimed in as well! Brant. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites golowjoe 0 #43 September 7, 2006 Thank you Brant , I wish I could say I created it . Sonic built the first one I ever seen . Mel and I just over trial and error and 6 different models have got this one where it is now . Good luck and be safe . Joe Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites davelepka 4 #44 September 7, 2006 QuoteThe short line will cause the d-bag to burn holes in the top skin on the center cell during deployment Seeing as how he won't listen to reason, you should have let him burn holes in his tail to teach him a lesson. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 Next Page 2 of 2 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. 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frost 1 #30 August 30, 2006 QuoteIf he gets aggravated by me calling his instructors "fucking idiots", that's his problem. Its not his fault he was given such poor safety techinques, but at least now he knows to question peoples advice, or instruction. Anyones. If it doesn't seem right......question it. Some people don't even know that they don't even know. Well...now he does. Sorry if it doesn't meet your description of constructive criticism, I'm a little rough around the edges when it comes to stupid people teaching. Very, very arrogant. I guess the safety of internet allows you to make such statements and call people "fucking idiots" with no caution. Oh well - i guess thats your thing. More power to you. Quoteeach time you get to another level...you realize that you don't know shit.... And yet you still give advice... QuoteMore and more, it seems that the stupid, arrogant, and digit's seem to be the ones giving the most advice. Usually totally wrong. As far as me knowing so much more than he does....well yes, I do. LOL That IS funny. Considering that you are just a season of jumps ahead of the original poster. and as far as "Why? Because he asked.....pretty simple." He didnt ask for your opinion on what he should or should not do. He asked about RDS design. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
marks 0 #31 August 30, 2006 Quoteeach time you get to another level...you realize that you don't know shit.... -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- And yet you still give advice... so maybe, nobody should give advice.... I'm not joining anyones side here, Im just pointing out the fact that there are LOTS AND LOTS of peeps that DO take the advice. and honestly, I don't 100% agree with this guys action, but who am I to judge him. teach him and give him advice, whatever your advice may be.. and if you want to PM me about anything, even if you feel I made you look like and ass, when I was only giving "advice", I unblocked it, because I beleive you can't be that bad of a guy, just take it easy on me, Im human also. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bob.dino 1 #32 August 30, 2006 I don't know anything about RDS', so I'll just comment on this: Quote3. Pull altitudes. No, i'm not throwing at 1800 feet - I apologize if I miscommunicated. I jump at a 182 dropzone, where our ceiling is 9000 feet. SOP is breakoff at 3500, pull at 2300. This is what is taught right from the get-go for the A-license. Before the RDS i was under canopy of 1900, after it's been 1800. That's still damn low. In Australia the minimum legal canopy-open-and-flying altitude is 1800ft. I can understand why you're doing it, but you really should be aware that with the additional complications of an RDS, 1800ft is not a lot of time to sort out any problems you might encounter. You're going to have to be very heads-up, aware, and decisive if things go to shit. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
frost 1 #33 August 30, 2006 When asked for, good advice is GREAT and very much appreciated. However, when advice was not asked, but was given anyway or given on subject not originally asked about, then it's bound to result in negativity. When the advice giver starts by saying "you dont know better or you dont understand or your experience is not good enough" then the BEST advice will fall on deaf ears. Demeaning someone else's opinion or expertise is THE worst way to get your point across. Basic human psychology man. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
golowjoe 0 #34 August 31, 2006 Last reply , Yhe lengths are 18" for the 2 and 6' for the single one . Come on Mark I thought you knew evrything . The other problem that could arise with leaving the set up hooked up is this . Have you flared it real deep almost to stalling and seen what happens to all that stuff trailing ? What happens if you do that at 200 feet to avoid a collision and it wraps around your lines ? Could be a bad situation . Again be very careful . You are treading in shark infested waters here . Joe Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
marks 0 #35 August 31, 2006 QuoteYhe lengths are 18" for the 2 and 6' for the single one . Come on Mark I thought you knew evrything . c'mon Joe!! you know not to play that game with me... of course I know what I know! I also KNOW it is 18" and even woke up in the middle of the night relizing I said 12". couldnt sleep after that and was late to work and got in a fight with my boss!!!! SO BITE ME!!!!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
davelepka 4 #36 August 31, 2006 QuoteHe didnt ask for your opinion on what he should or should not do. He asked about RDS design. This is where you lose your footing. Yeah, maybe a guy could get more of his point across if he was nicer, or used some tact, but the bigger picture is that if a guy is making what you believe to be a mistake, with possible dire results, that you do need to speak up, and let your thoughts be known, regardless if the original poster asked that specific question or not. The simple fact that this guy is asking some simple operational questions about a persuit that is at best ill advised, indicated that he may actaully believe that his course of action is OK. There's always the possibility that when you speak up, and point out the pitfalls of what's going on, the guy may just say, "Holy shit dude, you're right, I never thought of that. I'm going to attach my bag and PC to the top of canopy like a normal person, and start getting my PC out a little sooner". The other side is the implied consent that comes along with offering advice. Other jumpers may read the thread, see the situation presented, and if there are no objections, perhaps even seemingly encouraging advice from other posters, then it seems as if the situation is A-OK, and others may attempt to follow suit. This is why you log on, post your thoughts, and others can make their own choices as to what to read and what to believe. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeflyn 0 #37 August 31, 2006 Please evaluate what you are doing…… You want an RDS not to enhance performance, but to decrease your visual obstructions while under canopy. However you jump at a C-182 dz, and you have indicated you would not use this system at a larger dropzone. This really makes no sense to me…. I think the point everyone is concerned about here is that you want to jump a system that increases the probability of having a malfunction, not to mention the types of malfunctions. That probability goes up exponentially when you become a test jumper. Secondly you are deploying extremely low, I understand that you are not getting out of the plane until 9000ft and you want to get all the freefall you can. However put things into perspective, if you deploy 1000ft higher you lose 5 seconds of freefall. When you have a malfunction this 1000ft can be the difference between life and death. So to recap: 1) you are using an experimental RDS 2) you are deploying low 3) little experience (for what you are doing). During the time I have been in this sport people never die because of one thing, it usually takes three (sometimes more) mistakes or errors and their family and friends are left behind. I think it is great that you enjoy trying to improve on existing technology, but maybe you should focus on learning the basics of survival first. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #38 September 2, 2006 QuoteI don't know anything about RDS', so I'll just comment on this: Quote3. Pull altitudes. No, i'm not throwing at 1800 feet - I apologize if I miscommunicated. I jump at a 182 dropzone, where our ceiling is 9000 feet. SOP is breakoff at 3500, pull at 2300. This is what is taught right from the get-go for the A-license. Before the RDS i was under canopy of 1900, after it's been 1800. That's still damn low. In Australia the minimum legal canopy-open-and-flying altitude is 1800ft. I can understand why you're doing it, but you really should be aware that with the additional complications of an RDS, 1800ft is not a lot of time to sort out any problems you might encounter. You're going to have to be very heads-up, aware, and decisive if things go to shit. Agreed - he's a couple hundred feet low according to the SIM (2500 ft AGL for B license holders)Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MrBrant 0 #39 September 5, 2006 Have one more question, for those willing to answer: Why does the bridal extension (from the d-bag, down to the 2 lines from the slider) have to be so long? Why can't the 2 lines merge at the d-bag, say 3 feet from the slider (just a bit longer than the cigar rolled canopy) It seems like a good idea to have it above your deploying canopy, but is there any proven reason it has to be that long? I've got my line pretty long (about 5 feet), but there's a guy on my DZ who has it on his VX, with only about 2 feet of extension (just enough to let the canopy out of the bag). He seems not to be suffering any ill effects yet. So, that's got me wondering why the long line? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chachi 0 #40 September 6, 2006 Jumps : 230 License: B 5445 In sport: 2 years Guys with exactly this much knowledge should not be inventing gear. RDS is useless to have on your canopy unless swooping competitively for the exact reason of complicating something that does not need to be complicated. I hope you stay safe. Please stop while you are ahead and focus this much effort into your skydives. It will get you further ahead than an RDS for a 150+ sq. foot canopy. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
golowjoe 0 #41 September 6, 2006 The short line will cause the d-bag to burn holes in the top skin on the center cell during deployment . If it hasn't already happened it will . There is a reason certain things are done and unless you can affford to buy new chutes all the time maybe you should listen to people when they tell you this is the way it is done . Trying not to be an as* but you are making it hard . Again be careful . Joe Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MrBrant 0 #42 September 7, 2006 ok, thanks joe - i thought it might be something to do with that. I'm not questioning how things are done because I think i know better (FAR from it). I just wanted to know the reason behind it. I will be careful. Thank-you again for the info Joe, hope to meet you one day - I'll buy the beer! And thanks to everyboydy else who chimed in as well! Brant. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
golowjoe 0 #43 September 7, 2006 Thank you Brant , I wish I could say I created it . Sonic built the first one I ever seen . Mel and I just over trial and error and 6 different models have got this one where it is now . Good luck and be safe . Joe Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
davelepka 4 #44 September 7, 2006 QuoteThe short line will cause the d-bag to burn holes in the top skin on the center cell during deployment Seeing as how he won't listen to reason, you should have let him burn holes in his tail to teach him a lesson. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
