AAD?

[dzjmg 0]

I recently earned my A-license and am in the market for my first "used" rig.

I've seen some pretty good deals on rigs w/o a cypress.

I'm curious about how many of you jump with out one and why.

Thanks

Jay

[Sonic 0]

I don't have one, mainly cos I haven't got the money for one. I'm happy without though.

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It's like something out of that twilighty show about that zone

[AggieDave 6]

Do a quick search, you'll find more then one thread about this and you'll notice some pretty heated "discussions" about it too.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[ernokaikkonen 0]

I don't have one, and I'm not planning on getting one anytime soon either. I just don't feel like spending the money. I can do without.

[wmw999 2,565]

One rig has one, one doesn't. To me it's kind of like air bags -- I'd rather have a car with air bags, but if it's a choice between a car without and no car, or if the price difference just isn't worth it, well, I'll do without. Air bags can protect you in an otherwise extremely dangerous head-on collision.

A Cypres can protect you in an extremely dangerous sensory overload/distracted situation at 1000'. Don't even consider the knocked out in freefall scenario -- it's much less likely than the other.

But just like you're better off not getting into a head-on collision in the first place, paying attention to your surroundings and altitude in freefall is also best.

If you're at a slower, smaller DZ, then going without probably makes more sense than if you're at a huge turbine DZ where you're likely to get invited on something that's on the edge of what you can do, with a lot of people who will believe you when you say you can do that.

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[Ron 10]

I have 2 rigs one with one with out.

My "A" rig has it, and the smaller canopy.

I would rather have it because "Shit happens"

But it really does not matter. I did 600 jumps with out it.

I have a friend that if he had one would be alive today.....but if he had pulled his damn reserve, he would be alive as well.

It is a back up.

It does bother me that I know people that will only jump if they have one. It seems to me that they are not confident with out it....It is a back up.

I personally think (raises shields to protect from the flames). That if you have one save you, you should look into another sport. As far as I am concerned you died.

Ron

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[kopelen 0]

Must agree with Ron on this one. If your AAD fired because you were alt unaware then the alternatives are very deserving for you!!!!
ie you should be a dirt dart!!! Why do I say this, because having jumped with and without an AAD, I can say that alt awareness should always be in your head. As for those that refuse to pull around 2000-2500 ft because they feel it's too low, you should try it. Why because it instills confidence!!!

[falxori 0]

some DZs require it, including mine.

but i think i'd get one anyway.
better spend the $$ on a cypress instead of on a tomb stone...

O

"Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero."

[pilotdave 0]

If your best friend went in due to los of altitude awareness, I seriously doubt you'd be saying he deserved it.

Dave

[hookitt 1]

It's pretty simple in my Opinon. The Technology is there. Use it. I know several people who are still around because of them (insert Darwins survival of the fittest arguement here). It was shocking to find out such a competant skydiver actually used it. PM me if you want details.

900 bucks or so for a cypres is a small price.

C-ya

My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto

[hookitt 1]

Quote

It is a back up.

It does bother me that I know people that will only jump if they have one. It seems to me that they are not confident with out it....It is a back up.

I personally think (raises shields to protect from the flames). That if you have one save you, you should look into another sport. As far as I am concerned you died.

Ron

Ok.. I'm in... I NEVER get in this debate cuz it goes round and round ..................and round.....etc.


That's one of the stupidest thing I've ever fu(king heard. Of course it's a back up. So are ropes in Rock climbing....(insert another long list of back ups here) Have you ever done any thing that some reason you didn't die and was only due to luck Or a back up device of some sort? Take something else up because in your mind you're already dead.

People screw up. But because the weren't killed by it they get to enjoy trying again.

I notice you fly with a team. How is the back up helmut you are using holding up for you when you get kicked in the head?

Nuff of that. I post this in fun and laugh as I heckle. I'm sure it's not read that way but alas, It's a forum. Peace.

My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto

[JYorkster 0]

I do have one, although I have jumped without. As others have said, jumping without one is certainly better than not jumping. Keeping your skills current is much more important than a backup device.

However, an AAD is one of the cheapest insurance policies you can buy. You have life/health insurance, right? It's expensive, and you hope you never have to use it, but you have it just in case. Same with an AAD.

Buy the rig, keep jumping, but make it a priorty to equip it with an AAD as soon as you can.

Rock

[darkwing 5]

I am pushing 2000 jumps and I gladly equip myself with a cypres. I turn it on and then ignore it, as it is only a backup - not only for my own failings, but for the failings of others I jump with. While I didn't need it then, a while back when a cameraman hit me HARD in freefall I was glad I had a cypres. My lites were only out for a couple of seconds, with lots of altitude. That was a good reminder why I have a cypres.

ps - my home DZ requires them for under 100 jumps. The large majority of experienced jumpers there have them. I think the DZO sells them at cost, and installs them for free.

-- Jeff
My Skydiving History

[drenaline 0]

I like my cypres, its a nice last resort backup device.

HISPA 21
www.panamafreefall.com

[nacmacfeegle 0]

I have one in my main rig, my standby rig doesn't, and my crew rig definitely not...
I am just as comfortable jumping without one as with.
The only valid argument against having an AAD is finance, apart from Crew and water considerations.
A new Cypres costs about 800 dollars, how much is your life worth?

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He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. Thomas Jefferson

[Ron 10]

#1 never said anyone deserved it...

I did say that if you have a back up save your life, you should look at if you want to do this sport again.
When people have to cut away they look at why it happened.

When an Airbag saved my life I looked at how I was driving.

When an AAD keeps you from bouncing you should look at why?
And if the reason was "I freaked out" then maybe this sport is not for you.

#2. I did have one of my best friends bounce due to lack of ALT awareness. He was one of my best friends, he was also my piece partner in 4 way. I cried like a baby at his funneral. If he had had an AAD he would be alive..Of course if he had pulled his fucking reserve he would have been alive as well.

I think they are wonderful. I like them, and I have one. Because, yes my life is with $1000.00 every 12 years.

I don't think they should be required for Experianced jumpers, but I tell people to get them.

If I was a DZO, and someone had a CYPRES fire... I would make them look at why it happened....If the only answer I could get was something that looked like it could happen again, I would ask him to leave my DZ...Bounce some where else.

This sport is not for everyone.....It also should not be. Some people should not skydive. If you have an AAD save you might be one of them.

Ron

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[JeffGordon 0]

I have one. An Astra. The wierd thing is I do a lot of hop & pops. I turn my AAD on, ride to 3500, get out open and then turn it off. I think I have jumped without an altimeter more than I have without my AAD, even though it is of almost no use for what I usually do.

[bwilling 0]

I made over 500 jumps from 1978-1983, long before the Cypres was invented... the only AAD's available at the time were simply not reliable enough for experienced jumpers to use while doing RW, so almost no one used them back them...

In Jan. of 2000, when I started jumping again after a 17 year layoff, I bought gear, and I did put a used Cypres in it... not because I thought I needed it, but because a reliable solution was available now, and it seemed to make sense to me... I also bought an audible altimeter (never had one before), again because the technology was available, and it seemed to make sense.

Quote

I've seen some pretty good deals on rigs w/o a cypress

Keep in mind that most fairly current harness and containers (made in the last 6-8 years) will be 'Cypres ready', and that you can always add a Cypres to your rig at any time, as long as it's been designed to accommodate it.

"If all you ever do is all you ever did, then all you'll ever get is all you ever got."

[PhreeZone 20]

Why turn it off? Even with the Cypres I'm yet to hear of a documented incident where someone was able to achieve fireing speeds under an open canopy.

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[AggieDave 6]

Its my understanding that the Astra has to be turned off once you deploy, or you have a very high chance of it deploying. Thew few I've seen even have little switches mounted on the main lift webs so the jumper can do that.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[PhreeZone 20]

http://www.pia.com/fxc/astrindx.htm
There is no mention of needing to turn it off.

4.0 OPERATION:

4.1. GENERAL OPERATION PROCEDURES

4.1.1 The ASTRA is very simple to operate. Turn it on at the drop zone. The green light will flash rapidly 5 times, flash slowly at least 10 times, then flash once each second. The momentary flashing confirms that the unit is calibrated to fire the cutter at 1000 feet above the ground level of that drop zone (SEE OPERATION STEPS TABLE).

4.1.2 If the green light stays 'OFF' or 'ON' continuously, either the battery voltage is too low, or the cutter connection is faulty. The unit must be removed from service until the problem is corrected.

4.1.3 Once the unit is calibrated, it will 'ARM' itself automatically during climbing but 'ONLY' after reaching 1700 feet above that ground level (AGL).

4.1.4 If a jump is aborted after climbing above 1700 ft, turn the unit 'OFF' before descending so that it will not inadvertently fire.

4.1.5 The ASTRA is designed to fire the cutter at 1000 feet above ground level and at a rate of descent of 130 feet per second for the ASTRA Expert.

4.1.6 The ASTRA 'WILL NOT FIRE' above 1400 feet (AGL) regardless of the parachutist's rate of descent.

4.1.7 The ASTRA 'WILL NOT FIRE' at any altitude if the rate of descent is less than 115 feet per second for the ASTRA Expert.

4.1.8 The ASTRA 'WILL FIRE' when the parachutist reaches the unit's altitude setting and the rate of descent is greater than 145 feet per second for ASTRA Expert.

4.1.9 The ASTRA 'WILL FIRE' when the parachutist is at or below the altitude setting and the rate of descent increases from less-than to more-than 130 feet per second for ASTRA Expert.

4.1.10 When the unit 'FIRES', the green light will 'STAY ON' continuously until the unit is turned 'OFF'. If the unit is turned 'ON' before replacing the cutter, the green light will 'STAY ON'. The green light 'STAYS ON' continuously because of a faulty cutter circuit.

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[JeffGordon 0]

Mostly because I can.

[Sonic 0]

You don't have to at all - I've jumped them while leaving it switched on. It saves the battery a little if you switch it off.

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It's like something out of that twilighty show about that zone

[SkySlut 0]

I use a cypress because I have heard stories from the "best" RW skydivers in the world that have been knocked unconcious in freefall...and these are world champions. I also am an AFF instructor. When I jump with students...I jump with a full face helmet and an AAD. I have seen too many scary AFF jumps to do otherwise. Its not that I question my abilities to use my emergency handles...I have seen the "best" in the world whistle in because of circumstances that were out of their control. It doesnt make a difference how good you are or how many jumps you have...it can happen to anyone at anytime for reasons that you couldnt even imagine. Thats why I jump with a cypress.

[AggieDave 6]

Quote

There is no mention of needing to turn it off

Cool, thanks for the info.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."