Definition of a Hook Turn

[BrianSGermain 1]

I would like some feedback on the following operational definitions.

"Dangerous Low Turn":
A high bank angle, low angle of attack maneuver involving a substantially increased decent rate that requires the pilot attain a high angle of attack through the induction of significant tail drag in order to attain level flight prior to landing.

"Safe High Speed Approach":
A high bank angle, low angle of attack maneuver involving a substantially increased decent rate that does not requires the pilot attain a high angle of attack in order to attain level flight prior to landing. In a well-executed maneuver, the canopy's lift is the dominant force that places the suspended weight back under the wing, and level flight is achieved through the natural pendular stability of the system.
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[phoenixlpr 0]

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"Dangerous Low Turn":
A high bank angle, low angle of attack maneuver involving a substantially increased decent rate that requires the pilot attain a high angle of attack through the induction of significant tail drag in order to attain level flight prior to landing.

It sound like a too low setup and late abort from "Safe High Speed Approach".

[BrianSGermain 1]

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"Dangerous Low Turn":
A high bank angle, low angle of attack maneuver involving a substantially increased decent rate that requires the pilot attain a high angle of attack through the induction of significant tail drag in order to attain level flight prior to landing.

It sound like a too low setup and late abort from "Safe High Speed Approach".

Bingo.

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[CanuckInUSA 0]

Didn't Kevin Gibson sum it up nicely in the (now kind of old) Breakaway training video "a hook turn is what happens when you screw up and you have to go to the hospital". Or was in Gus Wing which said it? I can't remember except that it was a classic.

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[phoenixlpr 0]

I've read your book .

[superstu 0]

so to put in "less" technical terms, when a pilot is diving their canopy towards the ground and has to apply suffient amount of input, usually with toggles, so they don't hit the ground at a high rate of speed and to level out their canopy so that it is back over their head, would be considered a low turn. an example of sufficent amount of input would be doing a braked turn in the middle of your dive to try and get the canopy back over your head.

is that kind of right?

Slip Stream Air Sports
Do not go softly, do not go quietly, never back down

[BrianSGermain 1]

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so to put in "less" technical terms, when a pilot is diving their canopy towards the ground and has to apply suffient amount of input, usually with toggles, so they don't hit the ground at a high rate of speed and to level out their canopy so that it is back over their head, would be considered a low turn. an example of sufficent amount of input would be doing a braked turn in the middle of your dive to try and get the canopy back over your head.

is that kind of right?

Yup, that works for me. I think, however, that this definition neglects to account for wings with a negative recovery arc that always require some degree of tail input to level off. Nevertheless, the idea is to use minimal input to level off, rather than requiring a hard stab of the brakes or rears to save your butt.
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Instructional Videos:www.AdventureWisdom.com
Keynote Speaking:www.TranscendingFEAR.com
Canopies and Courses:www.BIGAIRSPORTZ.com

[speedy 0]

Interesting. I see some people consistently making a "Dangerous Low Turn" by your definition. They've done it for thousands of jumps now.

"Safe high speed approaches" are performed by others and sometimes they find themselves in a "Dangerous Low Turn".

The definition of a "Hook Turn" depends on whose ears it falls on. It can mean either one or both.

Here in Germany, "Hook Turn" tends to lean towards dangerous. Where a "High Performance Landing" is something different, better planned and executed.

They are after all just words. Or am I missing your point?

Dave

Fallschirmsport Marl

[dharma1976 0]

seems kinda semantic to me....

I would say a hook turn is what broke my ankle and the stab out was what saved my life...

but then a hook turn has also afforded me some fun landings when I have the appropriate setup and execution....

how about we go with "pull and pray" and well planned and modified while turning high performance landing

Dave

http://www.skyjunky.com

CSpenceFLY - I can't believe the number of people willing to bet their life on someone else doing the right thing.

[parachutist 2]

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I would like some feedback on the following operational definitions.

"Dangerous Low Turn":
A high bank angle, low angle of attack maneuver involving a substantially increased decent rate that requires the pilot attain a high angle of attack through the induction of significant tail drag in order to attain level flight prior to landing.

I think you're being too specific about "Dangerous Low Turn". It covers a broad range of actions near the ground. I would write something simpler like:

Dangerous Low Turn:
'The most common cause of injuries in skydiving today. AKA The SLAM (Stupid Low Altitude Maneuver). A canopy does not simply pivot right or left when turning... it also dives. A turn is deemed dangerous when it's initiated at an altitude that is too low for recovery from the dive'

Descent is misspelled in both definitions

Anyway, that's my take on it =]
Chris

[raymod2 1]

I agree that the high angle of attack during dive recovery is the element that makes the difference between a "safe" approach and a "dangerous" approach. If for no other reason than the fact that you are using up your margin for error when you are already at a high angle of attack. You could use this argument to support the position that canopies with long recovery arcs are safer for swooping than canopies with short recovery arcs. Canopies with short recovery arcs generate a higher angle of attack during recovery even with no input.

[proswooper 2]

so to differentiate the two definitions, it is the amount of input required for the canopy to recover that is what deems a speed induced landing to be dangerous or not?

[phoenixlpr 0]

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Canopies with short recovery arcs generate a higher angle of attack during recovery even with no input.

Why are they(short recovery) more dangerous, if you get yourself under canopy faster?

[raymod2 1]

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Why are they(short recovery) more dangerous, if you get yourself under canopy faster?

I chose my words carefully because I did not want to assert that one type of canopy is more dangerous than the other (short versus long natural recovery arc).

What I did say was that a canopy with a short natural recovery arc generates a higher angle of attack on its own. Since all wings have a limited angle of attack before lift starts to decrease and/or a stall occurs the canopy with a shorter natural recovery arc is using up more of your margin for error before you even apply any input (toggles or rear risers).

To put it another way, a Velocity has a larger range of recovery arcs to choose from than a Stiletto. This puts more control in the pilot's hands. That control can make landings safer for a skilled pilot but it can also make landings more dangerous for unskilled pilots.

[rhys 0]

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Why are they(short recovery) more dangerous, if you get yourself under canopy faster?

because you have to initiate lower! = less margin for error!

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix