Can a "mature" conservative canopy pilot find happiness with a Crossfire 2?

[alw 0]

The low down:

Age: 55
Jumps: 330
Current Canopy Spectre 210 (1.1:1)
Canopies Jumped: Sabre 2 190, Lotus 190, Spectre 190.

(edited to add I do about 300 jumps a year)

I like to fly the canopies. I really enjoy riding down from altitude at sunset. My preferred jumps are wingsuit jumps and for those my current rig is and will remain the rig of preference.

I'm thinking about a second rig, and want better glide and predictable and moderate openings. I'm not and probably will never be a hot dog swoopmeister but more performance isn't a bad thing. Penetration into the wind, powerful flare, and the ability to minimize the number of steps on run out are priorities. I'm not taking cost into consideration - this would be a long term investment not a transition.

In short, I'd like a solid performance wing that has all the right stuff but will treat me well if I fly it conservatively, square pattern approaches etc. The Crossfire 2 looks good to me for that and at a loading close to 1.4.

So I'm looking for input and debate from the pros.

Thanks in advance.

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Every day is a bonus - every night is an adventure.

[birdynamnam 28]

I jump the Crossfire2 myself and I absolutely love it. You don't need to be a swooper to appreciate it. I use it for wingsuit jumps. I've had line twists on 2 occasions, it was over my head in the first one, but in the second one it began to dive, something that you must live with when you go high performance. So just be prepared to react quickly if you get linetwists especially when you are wingsuiting

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[raymod2 1]

(1) penetration into the wind
(2) minimize the number of steps on run out

These are conflicting requirements that are more a function of wing loading than canopy design.

[dragon2 2]

If you don't want to swoop, you might be better off on a safire2/pilot/sabre2 type of canopy, IMO. Also, going from 1.1 to 1.4 is kinda a big step. If you radically change planforms (spectre -> xfire) that counts as a download step too. Sounds like a lot (to much) at once, to me. Why not get say a safire at 1.2-1.3?

ciel bleu,
Saskia

[DJL 235]

Demo a Nitro or Nitron.

"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

[davelepka 4]

You're talking about a pretty big change in performacne and handling going from a Spectre 210 at 1.1 to a X fire at 1.4.

I would look into a more gradual transition both in Wl and canopy type. Regardless of how conservative you may be, a canopy is what it is, and an X fire is not conservative.

I'm not saying that it wouldn't be a good choice eventually, but it might not be the best choice today.

[BETO74 0]

My exact thoughts also if you were doing 300 jumps a year you would have over 600 jumps by now fairly current and decent amount of jumps if you are for the long term then there is no rush to down size so fast there is a lot of difference between a crossfire and an spectre, hell there is a lot of difference between a Nitron and a crossfire things happens fast at 1:4 wing loading, I'll sugeest to be a little more conservative and take your time to know the wing, conclusion do what ever you want.

http://web.mac.com/ac057a/iWeb/AC057A/H0M3.html

[Vectracide 0]

Well, I'm not a "Pro", but if you would like my take on the issue as a Xfire2 pilot and a wingsuit flyer I can give it to you if you want......

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Controlled and Deliberate.....

[Tonto 1]

Some valid input from several posters here, and also a clear indication that those who mentioned wingsuit dives with the Crossfire 2 clearly didn't read your post in any detail.

As others have said -

Going from 1.1 to 1.4 is a big step.

Changing to a more aggressive planform on a download is never a good idea.

I don't see 300 dives a year in your profile, and with short durations in the sport, averages can change dramatically.

Regardless of how conservative the pilot is, if the canopy is aggressive it will react aggessively to any input - whether that input is initiated by the pilot as a reflex to an expected low level collision, or passing through unseen wake turbulence.

The penetration into wind and the fewer steps on landing are contradictory. Speed needs to be bled off on landing. The higher the speed, the more needs to be bled off. This (trim) speed is largely a factor of wing loading, not planform.

I'm 44 with 20+ years in the sport, so I think I have an idea of what you want from your landings. As a wingsuit pilot, BMI and PFI, I'm jumping a Safire loaded to about 1.8. As an AFF I I'm jumping a Stilleto loaded to 1.8. There's no noticeable difference in the swoop performance between these 2 canopies for me. It's all about the person between the toggles.

t

It's the year of the Pig.

[bob.dino 1]

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I'm thinking about a second rig, and want better glide and predictable and moderate openings. I'm not and probably will never be a hot dog swoopmeister but more performance isn't a bad thing. Penetration into the wind, powerful flare, and the ability to minimize the number of steps on run out are priorities.

Sounds like a Safire2 would suit you nicely... is there any particular reason you're thinking of an XF2 instead?

[alw 0]

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Sounds like a Safire2 would suit you nicely... is there any particular reason you're thinking of an XF2 instead?

The planform and the nose. The aerodynamics of this wing is more in line with the flight characteristics I'm looking for than the Safire.

Getting from what I'm comfortable with to this canopy will be a progression through loading and planform - taking my time and confirming capability at each step.

Because landing speed and glide ratio are in opposition here there is a compromise. The design of this canopy seems to be within the envelope that could support an acceptable result of that compromise.

I had a look at the Nitro/Nitron, but it didn't strike me as having the user base and I'm not sure I like the idea of non-cascaded lines.

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Every day is a bonus - every night is an adventure.

[dharma1976 0]

I persnally like how a crossfire lands when using a straight in approach from an L pattern which I have only done a handfull of times on mine...

but I will say this...

there will be times you will need to slide this thing likes to fly...and has a lot of low speed lift in it so if you dont mind flying it all the way to the end you might need to flare it a lot more than you are used to in order to have tippie toe touch down landinds even straight in...

Dave

http://www.skyjunky.com

CSpenceFLY - I can't believe the number of people willing to bet their life on someone else doing the right thing.

[davelepka 4]

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I'm not sure I like the idea of non-cascaded lines.

That stikes me as odd. Would you mind elaborating?

[b1jercat 0]

Hi, as a mature conservative canopy pilot myself, I would like to relate my experience on a Flight Concepts Rage, which I believe is equal to a xf2.
I went from a 190 saber2 to a 185 rage, at about 1.3
wing loading. The rage is a joy to fly, I love the way it dives, I like the way it drops out of the sky, you can land this thing on a dime. Penetration, no problem. If I had a second rig this is what I would have in it, however for what I,m trying to do it's more horsepower than I need. Someone's going to get a canopy with less than 50 jumps for a very favorable price.
Good luck ......

blues Jerry

[DJL 235]

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I had a look at the Nitro/Nitron, but it didn't strike me as having the user base and I'm not sure I like the idea of non-cascaded lines.

Ha, then come jump at my DZ. I can count 5 jumpers without even thinking twice.
Two of the owners were test jumpers on the originals and are still jumping them. I've been very happy with mine. I love how it flies, how it opens (90% of my jumps are with at least 1 camera on my head), and how it lands.

"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

[beezyshaw 0]

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I'm not sure I like the idea of non-cascaded lines.

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That stikes me as odd. Would you mind elaborating?

Yes, please elaborate. The continuous lines on our Nitro canopy offer several known advantages compared to cascaded lines. Cascades were only designed to reduce pack volume, not for any aerodynamic reason whatsoever. But of course the advent of small Technora line eliminated the need for the low pack volume of cascaded linesets.

[alw 0]

I appreciate the thoughtful and well considered responses. I also would like to thank those that took the time and effort to reply privately with their insight.

Just in case I didn't cover all the suggestions and questions;

I do not intend to jump anything over my wingsuit other than my current rig. I see people that do and I respect that they have what it takes to make it work, I don't.

Certainly any transition needs to take place with the proper training, time, and experience with a well thought out and orderly progression to whatever size/wing loading.

I can't say that I have any empirical or even anecdotal reason for not liking the idea of non-cascaded lines, I just have that feeling - kinda like preferring vanilla to strawberry - it may not make sense but there it is. Not meant to suggest there should be any reason why someone should not prefer non-cascaded lines. After all they must work OK or they wouldn't stand the test of the marketplace.

Thanks again all.

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Every day is a bonus - every night is an adventure.

[davelepka 4]

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I can't say that I have any empirical or even anecdotal reason for not liking the idea of non-cascaded lines, I just have that feeling - kinda like preferring vanilla to strawberry - it may not make sense but there it is.

Would it change your feelings any if you considered that a line breaking on a non-cascaded lineset is half as bad as a cascaded lineset? If you think about it, only one line attachment point is effected by a line break with non-cascaded lines. A cascaded line breaks, two line attachment points are set free.

Also, the cascade has always been the weak point on a line.

[Spizzzarko 0]

"lord Vader, The Empiracle army is ready" hahahaha

Sorry I couldn't resist. There is really no difference in feel of flight between cascaded and non cascaded, unless you are getting into super duper swooping.