Smaller Canopy same loading...

[YISkyDive 0]

Hey guys-

Im just trying too siff through the information avaliable on a smaller canopy with the same loading on a bigger canopy.

My question is what is truley the diffrence between a triathlon 210 loaded at 1.00: 1 versus a triathlon 135 loaded at 1.00 :1.

Im not suggesting there is not a diffrence, quite the opposite.. but I am intrested in how big it really is.

Obviously I cant know personally, due too my larger size, but would a smaller parachute equate (term loosely used) too a 1.1 : 1, 1.2: 1, even a 1.3:1 on a larger triathlon?

From what I understand- the diffrences are a shorter lineset and less drag develope more forward speed and turning speed at the lighter loadings on a small parachute, but i dont know what numerical impact that has i guess.

Any help would be appreciated,

dave.

[faulknerwn 38]

From my experiences in CRW, the bigger canopy will fly faster and be floatier, while the small canopy will turn faster and be more "twitchy."

The lines/body of the jumper create more drag comparably on the smaller canopy than the large. I know that my small CRW canopy is slower than those of equivalent loadings on bigger canopies...

[bob.dino 1]

If you haven't already seen it, John LeBlanc discusses this very issue in Wingloading and Its Effects.

[jakee 1,596]

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From what I understand- the diffrences are a shorter lineset and less drag develope more forward speed .... at the lighter loadings on a small parachute,

The way I understand it is that the smaller parachute will have a higher ratio of parasitic drag (lines, seams, pilot etc.) to lift induced drag than the larger parachute, making it slower/less efficient. This is because the lines etc. are now proportionally thicker in comparison to the airfoil.

Don't quote me on that

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[crazydiver 0]

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From my experiences in CRW, the bigger canopy will fly faster and be floatier, while the small canopy will turn faster and be more "twitchy."

The lines/body of the jumper create more drag comparably on the smaller canopy than the large. I know that my small CRW canopy is slower than those of equivalent loadings on bigger canopies...

I'm not sure I agree. I suppose it depends on what you mean by "faster." I would imagine the larger canopy would outglide a smaller canopy, but the smaller canopy should have a higher forward speed and downward speed because of reduced drag of the lines and canopy. THe reason for a smaller canopy to descend quicker is that, like you said, there is an increased ratio of body drag to lines and canopy and therefore this can give the canopy a steeper glide slope.

Cheers,
Travis

[faulknerwn 38]

Descend quicker yes, fly forward faster no. In big-way CRW formations, we always put the big-boys up top and in the middle - because their parachutes fly faster and are floatier. The smaller canopies go on the outside corners, because that's where you want slow-flying parachutes because you don't want the corners outflying the center.

In CRW, we've pretty well standardized on a 1.3-1.375 wing-loading on our Lightnings, and I'm on a 113. Practically everyone flies faster than my parachute. Comparative to the others, my canopy is slow and sinky.

W

[crazydiver 0]

The small parachutes will still fly "forward" faster, but because they will descend faster, some type of trim input must be put in place to decrease their descent rate, thus slowing thier forward speed as well. Larger canopies simply have flatter glide...and with a flatter glude you have less distance to travel to get in front of another canopy, assuming you are starting from the same point. Reason being is that the canopy with a higher descent rate must travel the hypotenuse between the larger canopy's line of flight and the line going directly vertical down from the larger canopy---a longer distance at only a slightly higher forward speed.

Keep in mind that the large canopies in the top and middle of larger crew formations many times utilize microline to decrease drag, thus, once again, flattening their glide and speeding them up.

Cheers,
Travis

[Trae 1]

in reply to"Any help would be appreciated, "
...............


This might help.

Imagine a mouse under a VX loaded at 2.

Now imagine Robo-cop under a VX at the same loading.

It's my guess that the mouse will turn like a gnat.
and that robocop would win any speed /distance comp.

......just guessing.

[BlindBrick 0]

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Descend quicker yes, fly forward faster no.

Got tp agree here. I've seen video of my friends and I landing at the same time. We've all got ~1.3 WL's, but my 269 comes in much faster horizontally.

-Blind

"If you end up in an alligator's jaws, naked, you probably did something to deserve it."

[crazydiver 0]

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in reply to"Any help would be appreciated, "
...............


This might help.

Imagine a mouse under a VX loaded at 2.

Now imagine Robo-cop under a VX at the same loading.

It's my guess that the mouse will turn like a gnat.
and that robocop would win any speed /distance comp.

......just guessing.

You're correct in saying that the mouse will turn super fast. You're also right stating that the robocop will do better in a distance competition, but in a speed comp, I"m still saying that the mouse is going to have the advantage if their wing loadings are the same.

Cheers,
Travis

[crazydiver 0]

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Quote

Descend quicker yes, fly forward faster no.

Got tp agree here. I've seen video of my friends and I landing at the same time. We've all got ~1.3 WL's, but my 269 comes in much faster horizontally.

-Blind

The only way this was true would be due to canopy model differences. Because if they are flying the same model of canopy at the same loading, there's no way you would be flying forward faster.

Cheers,
Travis

[faulknerwn 38]

When we build big canopy formations, we've gotten VERY detailed in engineering the formations. For the 70 way, we had a 160 (maybe a 176 I forget) up top piloting, with 2 176's next if I remember correctly. For the 85 way, they really felt we needed to speed up the base, so we had the top folks move up to 218 Lightnings. With a very small number of exceptions, everyone on the 85-way had a wing-loading between 1.3 and 1.375.

We put all the big boys on big canopies up top and down the middle - i.e. the base. That's because we wanted the formation flying fast. Just like in freefall, if the center/base of the formation is flying slow. the people on teh outside are going to be in a world of trouble..

All of the tiny people like me, go on the outside of the formation because our canopies at the same wing-loadings fly slower. The 85-way was frigging smoking with the engineering design this year. You can look at the pictures and see that our little canopies on the outside are actually trailing behind the formation a touch because the base is so fast.

Big canopies will fly faster than smaller canopies of the same type at the same wing-loading.

[crazydiver 0]

were you trimming with toggles or rears?

Cheers,
Travis

[faulknerwn 38]

Outside corners typically trim with inside toggle and outside front riser. We're actually in the process of switching from outside front riser to just using the outside B line. The B-line allows you to make your canopy sink without driving forward,