flyinghonu 0 #1 January 5, 2006 Is anyone aware of a course that offers basic CRW instruction, safety, etc. but is aimed at or friendly to non-CRW jumpers? "Excuse me while I kiss the sky..." - Jimi Hendrix Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
faulknerwn 38 #2 January 5, 2006 People have periodic beginner camps around the country, and I suspect they wouldn't mind if you sat in on the lecture part of it if you wanted to. In the meantime, I have a bunch of beginner CRW material on my website: http://crwdog.servebeer.com which might make for some reading in the meantime. CRW really isn't a big enough discipline to have anyone doing courses full-time or anything like a lot of the canopy control courses. But you should give it a try! You'll learn a lot.. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
flyinghonu 0 #3 January 5, 2006 Thanks for the link. Will definitely use it. "Excuse me while I kiss the sky..." - Jimi Hendrix Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkymonkeyONE 4 #4 January 5, 2006 QuoteBut you should give it a try! You'll learn a lot.. I totally agree! I really miss the days when we ALL did CRW at the bottom of every skydive. Chuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Samurai136 0 #5 January 6, 2006 I try and do some CRW every skydive but people keep freaking out and running away."Buttons aren't toys." - Trillian Ken Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
andyflylife 0 #6 January 7, 2006 QuoteI try and do some CRW every skydive Yeah same here, 2 or 3 of us at my DZ have started flying patterns together after skydives. Totally awesome flying relative under canopy, but as we are all novices at crew i intend to get some proper coaching this year. One of my skydiving goals for 06 Blues, Andy "swooper 24/7, 365!" ME on Myspace My Project playlist Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites flyinghonu 0 #7 January 10, 2006 QuotePeople have periodic beginner camps around the country, and I suspect they wouldn't mind if you sat in on the lecture part of it if you wanted to. In the meantime, I have a bunch of beginner CRW material on my website: http://crwdog.servebeer.com which might make for some reading in the meantime. CRW really isn't a big enough discipline to have anyone doing courses full-time or anything like a lot of the canopy control courses. But you should give it a try! You'll learn a lot.. Thank you so much. This was exactly the basic info. I was looking for. I seriously cannot believe that my AFF instruction did not include the importance of communication in wrap & entanglement situations. It came to my attention when two jumpers had a wrap at my home DZ some time back. They both landed under one fully inflated canopy and neither jumper ever initiated a cut away. I remember the discussion about the emergency procedures that "should have" been followed and was literally shocked that there was so much disagreement about what the two jumpers should have done. "Excuse me while I kiss the sky..." - Jimi Hendrix Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites DJL 235 #8 January 11, 2006 QuoteAFF instruction did not include the importance of communication in wrap & entanglement situations. There's only so much a student can swallow. I doubt a student would be able to identify whether they were in a wrap or entanglement, remain calm, communicate and execute the correct procedures most likely at an altitude of 2,000 ft and decreasing rapidly. It's better to put emphasis on avoiding the problem in the first place: Exit order, deployment altitude, traffic pattern, radio, big orange helmet, big canopy with bright colors. Additionally, all CRW wrap/entanglement procedures are thought through with the assumption that neither jumper will have an RSL and that both jumpers have something close to a CRW specific canopy. While that doesn't negate the lessons learned, blindly applying the procedures to regular jumping isn't the best approach. For example, if there are microlines around my neck, hand, ankle, I would rather that the person cut the hell away rather that develop communication in our increasingly painful relationship. But to get back to your point, if you don't know something of procedures to begin with then you'll never know the differences from them. Doing CRW is a GREAT way to learn about canopy flight and safety. Think about it, you spend about 5 times the amount of time under canopy and you're actually flying, not just waiting in line for your turn to flare."I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites flyinghonu 0 #9 January 11, 2006 QuoteQuoteAFF instruction did not include the importance of communication in wrap & entanglement situations. For example, if there are microlines around my neck, hand, ankle, I would rather that the person cut the hell away rather that develop communication in our increasingly painful relationship. Well....since you use that example. The CRW safety tips posted specifically stated that should you receive no response from the other jumper, cut away. But back to the point, AFF includes a lot to 'swallow' but using that as an excuse so as not to include more information that may help that student in a very unfortunate situation is simply ridiculous. I know jumpers who have never even taken any canopy instruction beyond what they learned in AFF . The wrap I was witness to was a licensed jumper with 30 something jumps and an slightly more experienced jumper with a little over 200 jumps. Neither of them cut away what could have been a deadly situation for both. I have heard that neither jumper was aware that they should have cut away in that situation. I mean you don't even have to know this stuff to get your license! "Excuse me while I kiss the sky..." - Jimi Hendrix Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites DJL 235 #10 January 11, 2006 Easy tiger, I'm not the one deciding what should or shouldn't be swallowed. The point of that example is that unlike a CRW canopy, a higher performance microlined canopy will start turn bad faster and the line will cut right down to the bone in a flash. The point of AFF is to teach you how to survive a skydive, you're basically on your own after that. You're being proactive about learning, the people you saw were not. I personally would like to see more in the coaching progression on canopy control."I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites flyinghonu 0 #11 January 11, 2006 QuoteQuoteEasy tiger, I'm not the one deciding what should or shouldn't be swallowed. Sorry didn't mean to come off that way - I'm working on that. QuoteQuoteI personally would like to see more in the coaching progression on canopy control. I agree. I would, at the very least, like to see some requirements for canopy control, safety, and associated procedures (other than just malfunction review) on the A license exam. "Excuse me while I kiss the sky..." - Jimi Hendrix Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Widgeon 0 #12 January 11, 2006 I think you'll see this issue addressed soon. Flip through the new SIM and there's plenty of new canopy information compared to older volumes. You are defintely on the right track if you are seeking more information about canopies as it will greatly impact your learning curve. Get a copy of Brian Germain's book too, it's an excellent source of information(and if you need any clarifacation, he'll gladly assist you). Whether you've got your sights set on just being a more rounded pilot, to a world class swooper, or you're interested in CRW, arm yourself with as much information from sources like these as well as the attendance of canopy control clinics. One thing is for sure, you're going to be under a canopy at some point on every skydive. Good luck! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0
flyinghonu 0 #7 January 10, 2006 QuotePeople have periodic beginner camps around the country, and I suspect they wouldn't mind if you sat in on the lecture part of it if you wanted to. In the meantime, I have a bunch of beginner CRW material on my website: http://crwdog.servebeer.com which might make for some reading in the meantime. CRW really isn't a big enough discipline to have anyone doing courses full-time or anything like a lot of the canopy control courses. But you should give it a try! You'll learn a lot.. Thank you so much. This was exactly the basic info. I was looking for. I seriously cannot believe that my AFF instruction did not include the importance of communication in wrap & entanglement situations. It came to my attention when two jumpers had a wrap at my home DZ some time back. They both landed under one fully inflated canopy and neither jumper ever initiated a cut away. I remember the discussion about the emergency procedures that "should have" been followed and was literally shocked that there was so much disagreement about what the two jumpers should have done. "Excuse me while I kiss the sky..." - Jimi Hendrix Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DJL 235 #8 January 11, 2006 QuoteAFF instruction did not include the importance of communication in wrap & entanglement situations. There's only so much a student can swallow. I doubt a student would be able to identify whether they were in a wrap or entanglement, remain calm, communicate and execute the correct procedures most likely at an altitude of 2,000 ft and decreasing rapidly. It's better to put emphasis on avoiding the problem in the first place: Exit order, deployment altitude, traffic pattern, radio, big orange helmet, big canopy with bright colors. Additionally, all CRW wrap/entanglement procedures are thought through with the assumption that neither jumper will have an RSL and that both jumpers have something close to a CRW specific canopy. While that doesn't negate the lessons learned, blindly applying the procedures to regular jumping isn't the best approach. For example, if there are microlines around my neck, hand, ankle, I would rather that the person cut the hell away rather that develop communication in our increasingly painful relationship. But to get back to your point, if you don't know something of procedures to begin with then you'll never know the differences from them. Doing CRW is a GREAT way to learn about canopy flight and safety. Think about it, you spend about 5 times the amount of time under canopy and you're actually flying, not just waiting in line for your turn to flare."I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
flyinghonu 0 #9 January 11, 2006 QuoteQuoteAFF instruction did not include the importance of communication in wrap & entanglement situations. For example, if there are microlines around my neck, hand, ankle, I would rather that the person cut the hell away rather that develop communication in our increasingly painful relationship. Well....since you use that example. The CRW safety tips posted specifically stated that should you receive no response from the other jumper, cut away. But back to the point, AFF includes a lot to 'swallow' but using that as an excuse so as not to include more information that may help that student in a very unfortunate situation is simply ridiculous. I know jumpers who have never even taken any canopy instruction beyond what they learned in AFF . The wrap I was witness to was a licensed jumper with 30 something jumps and an slightly more experienced jumper with a little over 200 jumps. Neither of them cut away what could have been a deadly situation for both. I have heard that neither jumper was aware that they should have cut away in that situation. I mean you don't even have to know this stuff to get your license! "Excuse me while I kiss the sky..." - Jimi Hendrix Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DJL 235 #10 January 11, 2006 Easy tiger, I'm not the one deciding what should or shouldn't be swallowed. The point of that example is that unlike a CRW canopy, a higher performance microlined canopy will start turn bad faster and the line will cut right down to the bone in a flash. The point of AFF is to teach you how to survive a skydive, you're basically on your own after that. You're being proactive about learning, the people you saw were not. I personally would like to see more in the coaching progression on canopy control."I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
flyinghonu 0 #11 January 11, 2006 QuoteQuoteEasy tiger, I'm not the one deciding what should or shouldn't be swallowed. Sorry didn't mean to come off that way - I'm working on that. QuoteQuoteI personally would like to see more in the coaching progression on canopy control. I agree. I would, at the very least, like to see some requirements for canopy control, safety, and associated procedures (other than just malfunction review) on the A license exam. "Excuse me while I kiss the sky..." - Jimi Hendrix Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Widgeon 0 #12 January 11, 2006 I think you'll see this issue addressed soon. Flip through the new SIM and there's plenty of new canopy information compared to older volumes. You are defintely on the right track if you are seeking more information about canopies as it will greatly impact your learning curve. Get a copy of Brian Germain's book too, it's an excellent source of information(and if you need any clarifacation, he'll gladly assist you). Whether you've got your sights set on just being a more rounded pilot, to a world class swooper, or you're interested in CRW, arm yourself with as much information from sources like these as well as the attendance of canopy control clinics. One thing is for sure, you're going to be under a canopy at some point on every skydive. Good luck! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
