Help getting Spectre 230 to "shut down"

[Anvilbrother 0]

I load a spectre 230 at 1.43. When the wind is 7ish and up I can get it to stop all vertical and most all horizontal speed, and stand the landings up. When there is zero wind I can stop all but a shy bit of vertical speed, but my horizontal speed it crusing. I can slide on my feet for 30 feet, but I usually just slide it out like a base ball player. I use the flare technique in no wind of "closer and faster", and in wind ''sooner and slower'' regarding when and how fast to flare. Any thoughts other than having my landings taken and canopy courses, which I intend to do when the chance arises.

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[Spizzzarko 0]

The spectre has a rather deep flare stroke. Chances are, if you are carying any speed after the canopy quits flying, then you are not flaring all the way. You should not be having this problem on such a large canopy.

[vdschoor 0]

Chad,

Have an experienced canopy coach / pilot or an instructor watch or video a couple of your landings and give you feedback on what you are doing.

Like others said already the Spectre has a pretty long flare stroke, and you might not be finishing your flare... or the brake lines might be a bit too long.. there are many things that could cause these kind of landings for you..

Getting feedback from someone with a lot of experience will help you fix those.. not reading about it

Have fun and be safe!

[Anvilbrother 0]

Thanks. I will get someone to watch/video me land. I would have done it this weekend, but the plane showed up late in the day, and everyone was just busting ass to jump before dark. When I got it from PD. we attached the toggles where they marked the brakes with a black line. I trust that this is the place the toggles need to stay, and I need to work on flaring it right, and if this does not work start taking them up 1/2 to 1 inch at a time.

Am I correct on the no wind ''Flare later and faster'', and with wind "Flare sooner and slower'' thought?

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[ntacfreefly 0]

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Am I correct on the no wind ''Flare later and faster'', and with wind "Flare sooner and slower'' thought?

No. It doesnt change.

To the mind that is still, the whole universe surrenders. ~ Lao-Tzu

It's all good, they're my brothers ~ Mariann Kramer

[pilotdave 0]

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No. It doesnt change.

Well, flare technique CAN change depending on wind, right?

I mean, if a swooper starts his flare while dragging his feet doing 60 mph level to the ground on a no wind day, he can end his flare right there if he's pointed into a 60 mph wind. He'll be stopped at ground level. The end. Right?

Dave

Dave

[ntacfreefly 0]

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Well, flare technique CAN change depending on wind, right?

I mean, if a swooper starts his flare while dragging his feet doing 60 mph level to the ground on a no wind day, he can end his flare right there if he's pointed into a 60 mph wind. He'll be stopped at ground level. The end. Right?

Yep, soon as the pilots ground speed is slow enough they can touch down whenever they like. It's entirely possible (if the wind is strong enough) to go backwards over the ground. So while 'toggle position at touchdown' may be different the speed at which is applied should be the same regardless of conditions (assuming level flight over the ground is the goal and the same approach is used )

Blues.

To the mind that is still, the whole universe surrenders. ~ Lao-Tzu

It's all good, they're my brothers ~ Mariann Kramer

[dragon2 2]

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When I got it from PD. we attached the toggles where they marked the brakes with a black line. I trust that this is the place the toggles need to stay, and I need to work on flaring it right, and if this does not work start taking them up 1/2 to 1 inch at a time.

Usually PD has the brake line setting too short. Check your canopy in full flight, there should be a bow in the steering lines. Now pull down both your frontrisers as low as you can and check again, there should still be a little slack in the steering lines, or at least, you shouldn't be pulling on the tail. Usually, esp with PD canopies, you CAN'T pull the frontrisers down to your chest because the brake setting won't allow it and the canopy will start to buck because you're telling the nose to dive and the tail to brake, at the same time.

Unless you have too much slack even when frontrisering, the brake lines aren't too long, and you have another problem. You could shorten them anyway of course, but that means no frontrisering for swooping or just in high winds to get down etc.

ciel bleu,
Saskia

[dragon2 2]

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No. It doesnt change.

Well, flare technique CAN change depending on wind, right?

I mean, if a swooper starts his flare while dragging his feet doing 60 mph level to the ground on a no wind day, he can end his flare right there if he's pointed into a 60 mph wind. He'll be stopped at ground level. The end. Right?

Ever see someone flare "the same as always" in high winds? They end up on their back, usually

You flare the same, you just stop a bit sooner because if you flare all the way you'll end up going backwards. Which can hurt. You can stop flaring when you're at ground level and your groundspeed is zero

ciel bleu,
Saskia

[Jib 0]

Definitely have someone watch.
Until someone said something, I was flaring too fast under a Spectre at 1.25 or so and having to run more than I should.

--------------------------------------------------
the depth of his depravity sickens me.
-- Jerry Falwell, People v. Larry Flynt

[marks 0]

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No. It doesnt change.

Well, flare technique CAN change depending on wind, right?

I mean, if a swooper starts his flare while dragging his feet doing 60 mph level to the ground on a no wind day, he can end his flare right there if he's pointed into a 60 mph wind. He'll be stopped at ground level. The end. Right?

Ever see someone flare "the same as always" in high winds? They end up on their back, usually

You flare the same, you just stop a bit sooner because if you flare all the way you'll end up going backwards. Which can hurt. You can stop flaring when you're at ground level and your ground speed is zero

then they are flaring wrong, the only thing that changes when flaring into the wind or downwind is the ground speed.

and that is speaking about JUST wind, not changing wind speeds, turbulence, or crosswind.

edit, ok i see you say stop sooner "stop flaring sooner", that makes sense, as long as your rate of decent is horizontal. I.e. your ground speed stops sooner. so no need to try and stop moore, if your going horizontal.

[AndyMan 7]

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I mean, if a swooper starts his flare while dragging his feet doing 60 mph level to the ground on a no wind day, he can end his flare right there if he's pointed into a 60 mph wind. He'll be stopped at ground level. The end. Right?

It's certainly true that you can get away with a weak flare on a windy day. That doesn't mean it's recomended, though.

The aerodynamics of the wing in flight does not change when the wind does. A perfect flare on a no wind day is performed exactly the same as a perfect one in strong winds, the only difference is ground speed changes sooner. Let's keep this conversation centered on no-wind days. Landing in windy days is a different thread (gusts, and going backwards).

The advice I give to new jumpers struggling in no wind is to ensure they're finishing the flare. After videoing countless people in that exact situation, not finishing the flare is almost always the culprit.

Telling people to flare higher on no-wind days has no basis in physics and does not help, especially on a 9-cell canopy.

_Am

__

You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead.

[AggieDave 6]

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Ever see someone flare "the same as always" in high winds? They end up on their back, usually

Ok, what it really comes down to is a few misunderstandings.

Really you should start your flare height at twice your body height. The same speed is generally used when flaring at the same height no matter what the winds are, the difference is where your "finish" is in different winds. If theres a 20mph wind and you're into it, you may not have to finish your flare past your waist level, instead of full arm extension.

Other factors like extreme speeds (swooping speeds) will slow down your toggle stroke, but for your typical straight type approach or slow swoop speeds you're still looking to flare your canopy to plain it out, then gradually finish your flare off to a full finish. What all of that means depends on canopy design and wingloading.

Make sense?

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[dragon2 2]

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Telling people to flare higher on no-wind days has no basis in physics and does not help, especially on a 9-cell canopy.

Why esp on a 9 cell? Doesn't help on a 7 cell either

On a 7 cell you have less flare to make up for mistakes, I think the timing of a 7 cell flare is actually more critical than of a 9 cell. Esp something like a Lightning. although with a 9 cell you can end up with more forward speed left, you have more time and flare to fix this before that happens. LOL When I started flying smaller canopies (7 cells) and was having some trouble landing those without having to run for it, I just told myself to flare LOWER in zero wind, because of the higher ground speed you THINK you need to start flaring sooner. Of course I'm not flaring any lower, I was just holding myself back from flaring too soon. Not looking at the ground underneath me so much helped a lot too

ciel bleu,
Saskia

[The111 1]

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as long as your rate of decent is horizontal.

Hmm, how do I make my rate of descent horizontal?

(Yes, it's an old post!)

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