Landing Patterns and Approaches

[ntacfreefly 0]

Quote

you think it is better with toggles?

I think it's better not to have to S turn - it's better to teach them how to avoid that - you know - thinking ahead?

Quote

depends on experiance... not everyone needs to be held back.

Sorry, they have less than 100 jumps. You're wrong.

As for held back...you sound like a 200 jump wonder trying to get a velocity - if you think recommending that someone should S turn with front risers to 'hit their target' is a good thing then you have serious issues.

You need to think before you post Mark.

To the mind that is still, the whole universe surrenders. ~ Lao-Tzu

It's all good, they're my brothers ~ Mariann Kramer

[ScottyInAus 0]

Does everybody here land on the same target as Students?

We have a student target, that some A Licence holders still land on, and everyone else lands on the grass closer to the buildings.
This way if a student is going to go long and miss the target they can "S" off untill they will land on target, this also doesnt hold any of the more experienced jumpers up.
Obviously, as you know, it may take a while to get your Downwind, Base & Final sorted out, especially when you are new to the sport and going down in canopy size, as I am. I've noticed landing has changed heaps since I've come down in canopy size.

At least when I "S" off I know, "Damn I should have started my final lower, I'll know for next time, as long as the wind doesnt shift."

Just my $0.02 worth.

Cheers
Scotty

Cheers,
Jason.

[sagan 0]

Thanks for all the thoughtful comments (even the overzealous ones). I'll print out the thread and plan on talking to the instructors.

-Patrick

[ccowden 0]

I agree. It is much better to find out why someone with 40 jumps is ending up in their final approach too long for the target. Mark suggesting that you should make S turns with front risers to correct a mistake on final is just plain ludacris. The reason we teach S turns with toggles to bleed off altitude is that you are using brakes, slowing down, and losing altitude in a slower, more controlled way.

Finding yourself too long on final, reaching up for the front risers and doing S turns with them to speed down to your target is not only dangerous, but completely irresponsible. It is like telling someone who has been learning 180s to just go ahead and crank a 270 if they set up too high.

If you find yourself somewhere you were not intending to be in your approach, ie: too high or too low, you should always abort the original plan and do the safest thing to get yourself to the ground and watch out for others. The LAST thing you should do is try to correct a mistake on your approach with a more aggressive technique to try and hit the original target.

Knowing someone has 40 jumps and is having trouble setting up, and telling them to do front riser S turns is giving them a recipe for killing themselves.

I agree ntacfreefly. Mark, not everyone is as hot-shit of a canopy pilot as you are and you really need to think about what kind of advice you are giving to whom. And if you think that this advice is suitable here, you DO have issues. Heck, front riser S turns on final for ANYONE is terrible advice, whether they have 40 jumps or 4,000.

[marks 0]

Quote

it is irresponsible to suggest using front risers to S turn on final Mark.

You know better than that.

what is irrisponsible, is somone lisening to advice over the net when they have access to coaches.

somone with 100 jumps isnt going to be able to pull the damn risers down much anyways. s turns on final no matter how you do it is dangerous to others in the pattern.

and there is notheng wrong with useing rears, fronts, or toggles as controll inputs.

[ntacfreefly 0]

Quote

what is irrisponsible, is somone lisening to advice over the net when they have access to coaches.

You're right - so stop giving it or at least be careful what you say to others. You never know who's reading this stuff and what they'll try to do. Whether you realize it or not you are becoming a higher profile pilot. That means when you say things people tend to lend a certain amount of credibility to what you say. They might not understand what you meant, only what you wrote.

Quote

somone with 100 jumps isnt going to be able to pull the damn risers down much anyways. s turns on final no matter how you do it is dangerous to others in the pattern.

Then why did you say use the fronts to S turn?

Quote

and there is notheng wrong with useing rears, fronts, or toggles as controll inputs.

Never said there was. There's a time an a place for everything. Your suggestion on WHEN was totally incorrect and, quite honestly, dangerous advice.
That's the issue here.

To the mind that is still, the whole universe surrenders. ~ Lao-Tzu

It's all good, they're my brothers ~ Mariann Kramer

[chachi 0]

i think the fact that you guys try and coach people online is where the problem starts. talking about safety issues, patterns, and maybe surface control is fine but this forum is filled with coahcing posts. if people want canopy coaching they should get it live in person. anything you type is read by every 100 jump wonder anyhow. trying to limit who you are talking to at any given time is impossible. if people are serious they should go get pro help in their area. by pro i mean qualified coaches at your DZ.