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AggieDave

Stock class swooping

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Recently I began thinking about how it would be amazing to see a "stock class" canopy swooping competition. Still have the high end canopies going really far really fast, but have competitons with "detuned" canopies. Something like jumping only the Sabre2/Pilot/Safire2 class of canopies in the competition and limiting wingloading at something like 1.7:1 but no limit on canopy sizing.

Not only would it show what can really be done on your typical skydiving canopy, it would be an amazing competition to watch.

Of course, this class wouldn't set any new FAI distance swooping records or speed records, but I believe it would be amazing to watch. Not only that, but I believe it would really peak the intrest of proper/safe swooping what you've got to the skydiving community. Basically debunking the "I've got to downsize and go extreme to swoop" attitudes, proving that its a "swoop what you brung" world out there and that jumpers should learn their canopy control to a much more proficent level.



Instructor: "Oh you wanna downsize to a XYZ-super-extreme 103 huh? Why do that? Jacob Johnson swooped a Sabre2-150 250ft in Perris at the "swoop whatcha brung" competition...can you do that on your Sabre2-150?" ;)
--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

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If the CPC took it up, I'd probably buy a Sabre2 170 to swoop with. Not to mention they're just all around fun canopies (as well as the other canopies in this class of canopies...they're all just flat out fun to fly).:)
--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

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This should be incoorporated in the CPC, as a CB class and a non CB class!



That would really be great in my opinion. Being able to compete in a swoop comp where I could be put in a call with my Samurai where I would have a chance to win. Swoop comps are fun anyway but having a chance without having to go CB would rock!
If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck!

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The concept of a swoop meet where some sort of canopy size/wingloading class was establish to help level the playing field was discussed many times this week in Colorado. How cool would it be to have everyone on the same level playing field and it really came down to who's the best canopy pilot. But this is an extremely difficult thing to do at the elite and/or CPC level (or is it).

If enough people in an area exists who fly similar wings want to compete against each other, then go at it. Setup some gates, learn how to make them safely. Start feeding off of each other (like the Georgia and Oregon boys seemed to have done). But remember that the CPC is the premiere amateur league feeding future pro pilots into the PST. So the best CPC canopy pilots will be flying ultra high performance wings. But competitive swooping can be a grass-roots thing too.

The course requirements for the wings you ask for dictate that you and I compete on different courses to begin with and could very well be different swoop meets (even though I think you can find ways to coexist). Distance is not difficult to overcome, but you'll need a smaller zone accuracy course and I question whether you should even attempt the speed carving course in this class that you ask for. But if enough interest is there in a region, sure why not setup a "B" division for the lesser performance wings to compete with. We usually run speed last, so the "B" division does less jumps. And if there are no "A" division canopy pilots around, just start feeding off of each other on the "B" courses until you're ready to run the "A" courses.

I learned three things this week so far competiting at the CPC Championships and watching the Go-Fast Challenge and that was:

1) I know shit about swooping compared to the pros.
2) I know shit about the new gear the pros and some amateurs are using.
3) I'm not ready yet to be a pro pilot, I need more practice.


Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

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That would really be great in my opinion. Being able to compete in a swoop comp where I could be put in a call with my Samurai where I would have a chance to win. Swoop comps are fun anyway but having a chance without having to go CB would rock!



People with aspirations of competitive swooping need to get the "I'll only compete if I can win" attitude out of their heads and replace it with a " what can I learn from this comp" attitude. Only one guy can win a swoop comp (I've yet to win one). Besides the different course requirements issues for the different wing types, it really comes down to who can fly clean. Swoop comps are marathons not spirits. Who's going to run clean and who's going to run dirty.


Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

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The concept of a swoop meet where some sort of canopy size/wingloading class was establish to help level the playing field was discussed many times this week in Colorado. How cool would it be to have everyone on the same level playing field and it really came down to who's the best canopy pilot. But this is an extremely difficult thing to do at the elite and/or CPC level (or is it).



be a great time and place for a parachute manufacturer to have a feild of players jump the demo and give feed back for them.

that way nobody has to buy it. just jump it in comp. then give your feedback.:)

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I love my velo(s), but for sure would like to demo a JVX. It will be interesting to see what PD does next. Jay (and the others) are obviously under their own badass wings, but when will the common mortal velo pilot see what they've got. Or will people run off to the JVX?

Sorry for rocking your world folks with our high density altitudes. We knew we had some fast conditions up here. It just took y'all so long to get around getting your butts up here to see what we were talking about. Where is will this sport be 5-10 years from now? B|


Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

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The course requirements for the wings you ask for dictate that you and I compete on different courses to begin with and could very well be different swoop meets (even though I think you can find ways to coexist).



Sounds easy enough. CB and non CB. I dont think people are asking for 20 different classes of swoopers. How about something simple like CB, non CB, eliptical and non. I dont know how to run a swoop comp I amjust throwing some idea out there.

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But if enough interest is there in a region, sure why not setup a "B" division for the lesser performance wings to compete with.



Is there enough interest up at mil-hi for something like that or is it a little to new yet?

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I learned three things this week so far competiting at the CPC Championships and watching the Go-Fast Challenge and that was:

1) I know shit about swooping compared to the pros.
2) I know shit about the new gear the pros and some amateurs are using.
3) I'm not ready yet to be a pro pilot, I need more practice.



I am in the same boat you are. Everytime I think I'm getting proficient at something someone comes up and just blows it out of the water. Keeps me striving to get better.
If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck!

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Is there enough interest up at mil-hi for something like that or is it a little to new yet?



There is a lot of young blood waiting to join the competitive swooping scene here in Colorado. I'm not sure what's going on in Canon City but I've been told that it's not serious down there. There's definitely a few Brush canopy pilots with the skills to run gates and then there are the existing Mile Hi CPCers (all on cross-braced canopies) with Justin Thorton and Chris Gray poised to join the existing CPC pilots as well as the new up and coming blood (some of whom are already flying cross-braced canopies and some of whom will be under something else for at least one more season). But if enough junior swoopers were to step forward and say "hey can we compete too but our wings aren't fast enough to fly your zone accuracy and speed courses", then who knows what could be done. But there needs to be sort of the grass-roots effort for these people. You need to know how to safely swoop first, then know that you can consistently hit the entry gates in practice (safely) before you step up to the plate and add the stresses of being in competition to your swoops. Competitive swooping is very much a mental game (this I did learn this year and put it into practice during the CPC Championships). I just decided to crash on my first speed attempt, got hurt and had to pull myself from the event before it was over. What if? But everyone except the winner can play the what if game right?

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I am in the same boat you are. Everytime I think I'm getting proficient at something someone comes up and just blows it out of the water. Keeps me striving to get better.



The reason why I say that I'm not ready to be a pro pilot is that I haven't practiced 5 foot entry gates at all this season. I have become very good at hitting the 10 footers (I rarely miss the entry gates any more), but the 5 footers add tons of spice to the stresses and dangers of competitve swooping that 10 foot gates don't have. So I need more practice. Imagine that ... the only way I'll become a pro swooper is if I practice more and do well in competition. Go figure. :ph34r:


Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

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This is the kind of competition regs I have been wishing for. I can learn only so much just from running the course on a routine basis out here by myself, but an actual competition with these types of regs would be an awesome opportunity for lesser experienced pilots flying less radical wings to get in and mix it up with the best in their area. Just imagine if some pros took the time to attend even one of these events... It'd be awesome, and when I say awesome, I mean totally SWEET to go a couple rounds against Jay on a sabre2 @ 1.7:P

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I think these are great ideas, and all it takes is someone with the initiative to start these types of competitons. I like the idea of a non-crossbrace division, and this is a very easy thing to start. Competition coordinators just need to add it.

The other thing I would like to see is, just as in auto racing, having a modified and a non-modified (stock) class. With modified, you can use different lines, retractable deployment systems, weight, and other modifications as are now used in competition. With the non-modified or stock class, you have to use canopies the way they are sent form the manufacturers. No modifications, no different lines, slider and pilotchute stay on, and you can not wear added weight.

I love what is going on in swooping right now and I have no problem with modifications or people wearing weight. I just think it would be a cool thing to add to current competitions.


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I 'm jumping a Sabre 135 loaded at 1.47 and on a good day I can make a swoop of 198 f doing a 180°. So I think it would be cool to see other people swooping this type of canopies.



Once again we just need to make some adjustments to our courses for you guys. Distance is a no brainer (no adjustments are needed). We can likely eliminate the toe dragging zones from the zone accuracy course for you guys and I think that the reduced distance will make it runable for you. And instead of running a carving speed course, you could run a straight speed course. But it's important for people to practice hitting gates before the competitions. Competition is not the time to be learning how to run the gates, you should already know how to run them to reduce the "object fixation"
risks.

It's going to be very interesting to see where competitive swooping goes in the years to come. But I can tell you from personal experience that the CPC rocks. Maybe we just need a "B" division if there is enough demand in a given region.


Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

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I meant that only to imply how much fun it would be to get to compete with the best. No pipe dreams of winning here, just the chance to learn from the experience and see the results. I'd be really fascinated to see how much is possible with this type of equipment piloted by the likes of Jay or any of the factory team pilots.

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In order to safely swoop, the canopy pilot needs to spend time in practice pulling high and learning the performance envelope of the canopy before they ever try to induce speed low to the ground. I'm sure the real bad asses of the world wouldn't take that long to figure it out, but I would need to go back to square one and spend time figuring out how to find the performance envelope of a Sabre2 170 (shit taking off my weights on my velo messes me up at times). It would be cool to see a swoop comp where it really came down to the canopy pilot and not have the gear influence the results. But this is not something that can be easily achieved. But it would be fun to see and participate in.

At the CPC Championships I knew I didn't have a hope in hell in placing as one of the top distance competitors because most of them had more experience than I did but also because some of them had more high tech gear than what I had. But that didn't stop me from hitting the gates on all three of my runs and scoring respectable distance runs for my experience level and gear used.

People need to get out of the mindset of I can only compete if I go big or have the latest gear. The new high tech gear helps the advanced canopy pilot, but these guys already know how to consistently hit the gates. Until you can consitently hit the entry gates in the lower stress realms of practice people shouldn't be worried about doing it in the high stress situation of competition. Learn to run the entry gates, then worry about going fast and going far and worry about how you can max out your performance with high tech gear.


Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

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for the dutch swoop tour we have open = cb and intermediate = non-cb. 5 ft gates as well for int but easier rules for acc and sometimes for speed as well. only for the bussloo comp, final of the euroswoop tour as well as a dst comp people could choose their category themselves.

ciel bleu,
Saskia

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I meant that only to imply how much fun it would be to get to compete with the best. No pipe dreams of winning here, just the chance to learn from the experience and see the results. I'd be really fascinated to see how much is possible with this type of equipment piloted by the likes of Jay or any of the factory team pilots.



jay is beatable. it will take training focus and money and the right canopy. pipe dream maybe, but it is an awsome feeling when you relise your dreams can come true with dedication.

i would love to see some sort of stock class, maybe hosted by p.d. then one by areodyne, then one by icarus. and on and on.

if the same pilots came to each one, im willing to bet you would see a trend on who was on top and who wasnt.

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jay is beatable. it will take training focus and money and the right canopy.



For every top competitior in no matter what the sport is, there's someone coming up the ranks that is hungrier, more skilled and wants it so bad they'll push themselves to limits thought to be impossible.
--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

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jay is beatable. it will take training focus and money and the right canopy.



For every top competitior in no matter what the sport is, there's someone coming up the ranks that is hungrier, more skilled and wants it so bad they'll push themselves to limits thought to be impossible.



no shit!

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