alain 0 #1 December 4, 2002 I might downsize from my safire 135 (loaded 1:1,25 - 250+ jumps uder it - 330 jumps over all) to a cobalt 120 (would be loaded 1:4), sometime next year; probabely after 100 more jumps on the safire. Have some of you experience downsizing from safire to cobalt? What's your feeling? thanx for input Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites PhreeZone 20 #2 December 4, 2002 Since using Atairs measuring (and PD's, and most other companies) techniques on the Safire 139 it would be a 125 sq ft canopy there will not be that big of a difference in the loading. You were actually loading that Safire at more like 1.39 instead of 1.25. 1.4 on a Cobalt is'nt light.. but its a lot of fun at that speed.Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites cobaltdan 0 #3 December 4, 2002 you will not notice a foward speed increase only a performance increase, i.e. softer openings, slightly faster turns, more lift, glide, swoop and flare. sincerely, dan<><>Daniel Preston <><> atairaerodynamics.com (sport) atairaerospace.com (military) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites TALONSKY 0 #4 December 4, 2002 Before you decide on what your next canopy size and make should be, I would suggest demoing several different kinds and a few sizes. After all you will be investing a fair amount of money into the canopy, you may want to make sure it is exactly what you want. I know personally I did a lot of research on my canopy decision and I am happy with it, however I was surprised later when jumping other kinds of canopies that there are a lot of great canopies to choose from. In retrospect I wish I had taken the time to demo more canopies before buying just to make sure I was getting the best for my needs. Blues Skies Kirk Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Kolla 0 #5 December 5, 2002 I agree with Kirk - fly before you buy! Most manufacturers have demo programs in place, and some dealers/DZ's offer demos/rentals as well, so you can try the model/size you are looking for to make sure you like the way it opens/flies/lands. Also take your time with your current canopy too - really learn how to fly it and make sure you have fully explored all that it has to offer before you move either up in performance or down in size - be safe Blue ones, Kolla Blue Skies Magazine Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Geoff 0 #6 December 5, 2002 Yes - I downsized from a Safire 129 to a Cobalt 105 loaded at about 1.8 - so taking into account that a Safire is actually 7% smaller than placarded, that's a step down from a 120 to a 105. Overall impressions about the Cobalt in comparison: Softer openings Much more responsive to harness movements - this took some getting used to, especially when stowing the slider, or reaching for the dive loops. (This will probably occur less at lower wing loadings.) Better glide. Definitely quicker through the air (mainly due to the step down in size), and turns much quicker. Much faster altitude loss in turns. Much easier to land whether swooping or not- the flare power seems to last forever. Hope this helps. Geoff Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites alain 0 #7 December 5, 2002 yes, I'm aware of the safire sizing issue (I wasn't when I bought it). Keep it quite, my DZO doesn't want to know he let me fly that wing loading with less than 100 jumps (my safire is a 135, custom size, with long steering lines to avoid front riser erratic behavior) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites alain 0 #8 December 5, 2002 good news, that's exactely what i'm looking for. What about riser presure ? botom line is: is it possible to demo cobalts in europe ? Dan ? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites alain 0 #9 December 5, 2002 kola> Also take your time with your current canopy too - really learn how to fly it and make sure you have fully explored all that it has to offer before you move either up in performance or down in size - be safe agreed: you've noticed that I'm not really moving down in size I don't intend to switch until I'll have 400+ jumps under the safire. My point here is just taking time to do some research and make my mind. + I expect at least couple of months delivery time for the cobalt, that would quite a few more jumps on the safire too >be safe I'm the first one to preach education and humbleness Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites alain 0 #10 December 5, 2002 kirk> I would suggest demoing several different kinds and a few sizes I've put some jumps on Stilleto 135 and Contrail 135. I preferred the openings of my safire. The stilleto was much more sensitive to body position, ok you get used to that quickly. The contrail gave me a couple of hard openings, probably due to packing because my buddy who flies them at various loadings (1,4 to 1,8) has nothing but great openings. I found the stilleto much more responsive to command and harness input (despite lighter loading), part of that was probably due to the exessively short steering lines (the guy I borough it from likes to fly it this way). I actually prefered the Contrail, maybe coz it felt closer to what I'm used too (smother command inputs). Anyway, both canopies had litghter riser presure and way more flare than the safire. (I plan to demo stilleto 120, contrail 120 and eventually springo 120 as soon as the weather warms up ) I find the safire kinda tricky to land properly in no wind without additional speed (I'm fine now as I have enough experience under it to know how to fly the beast ;-). This has nothing to see with the longer command lines: it actually flies and land better since I had the mod done. I was positively surprised to discover how easy to land arms up the Stilleto and Contrail are... Maybe someone used to a stilleto would be surprised to land a safire ;-) My interest in Cobalts comes from their high speed deployment abilities (this is a safety concern as I'm mostly freeflying) last question: do you reckon I would get a larger recovery arc with the cobalt? (I mean significantly) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites alain 0 #11 December 5, 2002 thanks for you input Geoff, I apreciate that Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites cobaltdan 0 #12 December 5, 2002 botom line is: is it possible to demo cobalts in europe ? Dan ? yes, please contact stacy in our office 718-923-1709. or via info@extremefly.com sincerely, danDaniel Preston <><> atairaerodynamics.com (sport) atairaerospace.com (military) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites grega 0 #13 December 5, 2002 As far as i know atair has a representative in Germany, and of course here in slovenia. but Germany is closer to you. I think it shouldn't be a problem. and i think dan can give you the exact info. Otherwise i'll do the search..."George just lucky i guess!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites grega 0 #14 December 5, 2002 hah looks like you already got the info "George just lucky i guess!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites gus 1 #15 December 5, 2002 Quotebotom line is: is it possible to demo cobalts in europe ? Probably not much use to you but I just got an email from Andy Bennett at Skydive Point Zero, based in the UK, confirming that he has 2 demo Cobalts, a 135 and a 150. GusOutpatientsOnline.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites alain 0 #16 December 5, 2002 Dan> yes, please contact stacy in our office 718-923-1709. or via info@extremefly.com thanks, I'll do that Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites yardhippie 0 #17 December 5, 2002 I dont know much about the safire, but I demo'd a 135 cobalt for about 35 jumps and was amazed. I was going to order one, but it was gonna take 6 months to build, so while I was thinking on it I jumped another brand and thought it to be even better and not as "sensitive" as the others have said. I thing the sensitivity makes it feel like its more responsive, but hey its just an opinion. Overall I enjoyed the Cobalt. Just found one i liked more.Goddam dirty hippies piss me off! ~GFD "What do I get for closing your rig?" ~ me "Anything you want." ~ female skydiver Mohoso Rodriguez #865 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0
PhreeZone 20 #2 December 4, 2002 Since using Atairs measuring (and PD's, and most other companies) techniques on the Safire 139 it would be a 125 sq ft canopy there will not be that big of a difference in the loading. You were actually loading that Safire at more like 1.39 instead of 1.25. 1.4 on a Cobalt is'nt light.. but its a lot of fun at that speed.Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cobaltdan 0 #3 December 4, 2002 you will not notice a foward speed increase only a performance increase, i.e. softer openings, slightly faster turns, more lift, glide, swoop and flare. sincerely, dan<><>Daniel Preston <><> atairaerodynamics.com (sport) atairaerospace.com (military) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TALONSKY 0 #4 December 4, 2002 Before you decide on what your next canopy size and make should be, I would suggest demoing several different kinds and a few sizes. After all you will be investing a fair amount of money into the canopy, you may want to make sure it is exactly what you want. I know personally I did a lot of research on my canopy decision and I am happy with it, however I was surprised later when jumping other kinds of canopies that there are a lot of great canopies to choose from. In retrospect I wish I had taken the time to demo more canopies before buying just to make sure I was getting the best for my needs. Blues Skies Kirk Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kolla 0 #5 December 5, 2002 I agree with Kirk - fly before you buy! Most manufacturers have demo programs in place, and some dealers/DZ's offer demos/rentals as well, so you can try the model/size you are looking for to make sure you like the way it opens/flies/lands. Also take your time with your current canopy too - really learn how to fly it and make sure you have fully explored all that it has to offer before you move either up in performance or down in size - be safe Blue ones, Kolla Blue Skies Magazine Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Geoff 0 #6 December 5, 2002 Yes - I downsized from a Safire 129 to a Cobalt 105 loaded at about 1.8 - so taking into account that a Safire is actually 7% smaller than placarded, that's a step down from a 120 to a 105. Overall impressions about the Cobalt in comparison: Softer openings Much more responsive to harness movements - this took some getting used to, especially when stowing the slider, or reaching for the dive loops. (This will probably occur less at lower wing loadings.) Better glide. Definitely quicker through the air (mainly due to the step down in size), and turns much quicker. Much faster altitude loss in turns. Much easier to land whether swooping or not- the flare power seems to last forever. Hope this helps. Geoff Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
alain 0 #7 December 5, 2002 yes, I'm aware of the safire sizing issue (I wasn't when I bought it). Keep it quite, my DZO doesn't want to know he let me fly that wing loading with less than 100 jumps (my safire is a 135, custom size, with long steering lines to avoid front riser erratic behavior) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
alain 0 #8 December 5, 2002 good news, that's exactely what i'm looking for. What about riser presure ? botom line is: is it possible to demo cobalts in europe ? Dan ? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
alain 0 #9 December 5, 2002 kola> Also take your time with your current canopy too - really learn how to fly it and make sure you have fully explored all that it has to offer before you move either up in performance or down in size - be safe agreed: you've noticed that I'm not really moving down in size I don't intend to switch until I'll have 400+ jumps under the safire. My point here is just taking time to do some research and make my mind. + I expect at least couple of months delivery time for the cobalt, that would quite a few more jumps on the safire too >be safe I'm the first one to preach education and humbleness Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
alain 0 #10 December 5, 2002 kirk> I would suggest demoing several different kinds and a few sizes I've put some jumps on Stilleto 135 and Contrail 135. I preferred the openings of my safire. The stilleto was much more sensitive to body position, ok you get used to that quickly. The contrail gave me a couple of hard openings, probably due to packing because my buddy who flies them at various loadings (1,4 to 1,8) has nothing but great openings. I found the stilleto much more responsive to command and harness input (despite lighter loading), part of that was probably due to the exessively short steering lines (the guy I borough it from likes to fly it this way). I actually prefered the Contrail, maybe coz it felt closer to what I'm used too (smother command inputs). Anyway, both canopies had litghter riser presure and way more flare than the safire. (I plan to demo stilleto 120, contrail 120 and eventually springo 120 as soon as the weather warms up ) I find the safire kinda tricky to land properly in no wind without additional speed (I'm fine now as I have enough experience under it to know how to fly the beast ;-). This has nothing to see with the longer command lines: it actually flies and land better since I had the mod done. I was positively surprised to discover how easy to land arms up the Stilleto and Contrail are... Maybe someone used to a stilleto would be surprised to land a safire ;-) My interest in Cobalts comes from their high speed deployment abilities (this is a safety concern as I'm mostly freeflying) last question: do you reckon I would get a larger recovery arc with the cobalt? (I mean significantly) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
alain 0 #11 December 5, 2002 thanks for you input Geoff, I apreciate that Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cobaltdan 0 #12 December 5, 2002 botom line is: is it possible to demo cobalts in europe ? Dan ? yes, please contact stacy in our office 718-923-1709. or via info@extremefly.com sincerely, danDaniel Preston <><> atairaerodynamics.com (sport) atairaerospace.com (military) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
grega 0 #13 December 5, 2002 As far as i know atair has a representative in Germany, and of course here in slovenia. but Germany is closer to you. I think it shouldn't be a problem. and i think dan can give you the exact info. Otherwise i'll do the search..."George just lucky i guess!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
grega 0 #14 December 5, 2002 hah looks like you already got the info "George just lucky i guess!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gus 1 #15 December 5, 2002 Quotebotom line is: is it possible to demo cobalts in europe ? Probably not much use to you but I just got an email from Andy Bennett at Skydive Point Zero, based in the UK, confirming that he has 2 demo Cobalts, a 135 and a 150. GusOutpatientsOnline.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
alain 0 #16 December 5, 2002 Dan> yes, please contact stacy in our office 718-923-1709. or via info@extremefly.com thanks, I'll do that Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
yardhippie 0 #17 December 5, 2002 I dont know much about the safire, but I demo'd a 135 cobalt for about 35 jumps and was amazed. I was going to order one, but it was gonna take 6 months to build, so while I was thinking on it I jumped another brand and thought it to be even better and not as "sensitive" as the others have said. I thing the sensitivity makes it feel like its more responsive, but hey its just an opinion. Overall I enjoyed the Cobalt. Just found one i liked more.Goddam dirty hippies piss me off! ~GFD "What do I get for closing your rig?" ~ me "Anything you want." ~ female skydiver Mohoso Rodriguez #865 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
