superstu 0 #1 December 4, 2002 hey guys, i was wondering what would be good first canopy for someone who has 70+ jumps and who has flown a 175 triathlon as their smallest canopy? I was looking at getting a semi elliptical canopy such as a safire or sabre or maybe a triathlon if i was going to go square. these are just some of what i was looking at if you know of a different canopy that i could look into shout it out or something. thanks and blue sky's.Slip Stream Air Sports Do not go softly, do not go quietly, never back down Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #2 December 4, 2002 Its time for you to start demoing. Call up PD, get a Sabre2 demo, try atleast a 190 first, if not something larger, since it will be completely different then what you are used to flying. Try a Spectre too, both are great canopies. Its pretty hard to go wrong with a PD canopy (no, I'm not a "PD-snob" I jump and love my Pisa Heatwave and jumped a Hornet for a good while too).--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
drenaline 0 #3 December 4, 2002 Sabre2 (semi elliptical), spectre (if you like semi elliptical 7 cell), monarch (square) and with proper wingload a cobalt (elliptical, email cobaltdan or call him to help you decide what wingload can be good for you). Readers don't flame me with the cobalt, cobaltdan himself told me that with a good wingload it can be used for newbies. HISPA 21 www.panamafreefall.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #4 December 4, 2002 Quote cobaltdan himself told me that with a good wingload it can be used for newbies. Sure he did, he sales canopies. Ellipticals are fine for low times IF they have a very very good canopy control foundation and the majority (98.8%) of the DZs in this country don't have those type of courses in place yet. On another note, I'm going to disagree about the Monarch, sure its a great canopy, but why go with old technology that constantly opens hard when there is better stuff out there?--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nacmacfeegle 0 #5 December 4, 2002 "I'm going to disagree about the Monarch, sure its a great canopy, but why go with old technology that constantly opens hard when there is better stuff out there? " As a monarch owner, I can only reinforce Aggie's statement. When I was jumping my monarch, the limit on my jumping was not how fast I could pack, or money, it was the number openings I could subject my body to..... -------------------- He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. Thomas Jefferson Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skycat 0 #6 December 4, 2002 As options to the sabre2 and spectre are the safire2 and omni. I've never jumped these but percisions versions are the synergy and fusion (I think) Like Dave said there is also the HornetFly it like you stole it! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
drenaline 0 #7 December 4, 2002 >>I'm going to disagree about the Monarch, sure its a great canopy, but why go with old technology that constantly opens hard when there is better stuff out there? A friend at the DZ jumps one, he says he gets soft on heading openings. HISPA 21 www.panamafreefall.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #8 December 4, 2002 Quote A friend at the DZ jumps one, he says he gets soft on heading openings. On heading I believe, but soft? Well, I guess all in all, "soft" openings is a relative term, but I don't think I've ever heard anyone describe their Monarch as opening "soft."--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChileRelleno 0 #9 December 4, 2002 Save money, get a Hornet! PISA makes nice canopies and their inexspensive. ChileRelleno-Rodriguez Bro#414 Hellfish#511,MuffBro#3532,AnvilBro#9, D24868 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sdctlc 0 #10 December 4, 2002 The Monarch is very similar to the Sabre, exactly the same no. Please, I dont want a bunch of people yelling that they are completely different. They may be different but they are similar and are, by many, considered to be close in how they behave. If you are having hard openings on any canopy consider having your rigger sew a "pocket" on the slider. It does help slow the opening down and make them much more tolerable. As to the technology advances, somebody was absolutly correct in saying that there are many great parachute technology advances out there BUT if a new jumper can get a fair deal on a decent canopy that will allow for more jumping, i.e. spend less on canopy and in turn get more jumping, that new jumper will probably come out ahead in the long run. I would guess that in 90%+ of first canopy purchases the jumper only puts a couple hunderd jumps on it. They use it as a transition canopy to enable more jumps but also to gain greater canopy skills and a better understanding of what they want to look for in a more permanant canopy. I agree that an old clapped out F-111 or even ZP canopy should not be sold to a new jumper . Taking that thought a step further, any jumper trying to make a few bucks on their crummy gear is doing a diservice to the uninformed new jumper. For the reasoning stated above though, a fair deal on a canopy in good shape, espically one that is still being sold today by the manufacturer (like the Monarch people seem to not like) The new jumper can gain a lot. Just my $0.02 Scott C."He who Hesitates Shall Inherit the Earth!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sonic 0 #11 December 4, 2002 Or get a complete rig from them - mine cost about the same as a 2nd hand kit.----------------------------------- It's like something out of that twilighty show about that zone Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
superstu 0 #12 December 4, 2002 So how does demoing work? Can i just call up PD and they'll send me a canopy to try out? Thanks for the replies.Slip Stream Air Sports Do not go softly, do not go quietly, never back down Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 20 #13 December 4, 2002 How to demo gearYesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohanW 0 #14 December 4, 2002 Does anyone have opinions on the PD Silhouette? I jump one, but frankly I have no idea how it really compares to, say, a Sabre 2. Openings are nice, packing is easy, it's definitely fun to fly, but it is a semi-elliptical. A lot might depend on wingload. At 1.2, flying through the flare is recommended, but I'm still happy with it after some 200 jumps on it and have no plans to downsize anytime in the coming week. (Maybe I should admit I'm flying it a lot differently than I did in the beginning, and I may be one of those 'Get all the performance from your current canopy' types. But I shouldn't be the judge of that, I suppose.)Johan. I am. I think. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cobaltdan 0 #15 December 4, 2002 "Sure he did, he sales canopies. " actually i design canopies... anyway as recommended demo time. i would start with any modern 9 cell design and decide if you want a 7 or 9 cell. then demo all in the class choose what suites you best. 9 cell canopies to demo are cobalt, sabre 2, hornet, and safire. (listed in order of my personal preference) sincerely, dan<><> www.extremefly.comDaniel Preston <><> atairaerodynamics.com (sport) atairaerospace.com (military) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Samurai136 0 #16 December 5, 2002 It depends... What did you load the 175 Triathlon at? What do you want out of a canopy? I jumped a 160 Triathlon Hybird until jump 250. For your experience level a Triathlon or Spectre loaded about 1:1 should provide enough safety to develop your canopy skills and still have some fun. Ken"Buttons aren't toys." - Trillian Ken Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
superstu 0 #17 December 5, 2002 i'm 160#'s and i'm thinking i want something in the 150-160 range. i can land the 175 standing and where i want to pretty much every time. i also want a canopy that i can keep for a couple of hundred jumps, and i'm not into the whole swooping thing yet.Slip Stream Air Sports Do not go softly, do not go quietly, never back down Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lazerq3 0 #18 December 5, 2002 Hornet!!!!AWSOME canopy for the price!!! jasonFreedom of speech includes volume Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Samurai136 0 #19 December 5, 2002 That's pretty sensable. You have your whole Skydiving future to build swoop skills if you desire. The tapering on 'semi-elliptical' and 'elliptical' canopies lowers drag and makes the canopy turn and dive faster. You shouldn't have a problem finding a used Spectre or Triathlon in the range you are looking at. Both are 'square' 7-cells, are good canopies and good to develop canopy skills. In fact, my Triathlon 160 Hybrid is available. Send me a Private Message sometime if you're interested. "Buttons aren't toys." - Trillian Ken Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
superstu 0 #20 December 7, 2002 I was just looking at some info about the diablo with my experience would it be wise to get a 170 or is that a little extreme with only 71 jumps? I have jumped a triathlon 175 and can land it no problem, but doing some research it sounds like the diablo is a couple notches above the triathlon in the perfomance section.Slip Stream Air Sports Do not go softly, do not go quietly, never back down Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 20 #21 December 7, 2002 Diablo is deffinitly a few notches up in terms of turn ability. Its a full elliptical packed into a 7 cell planform. Check out something like a Sabre2, Lotus, Hornet or Safire instead of a Diablo unlessyour ready for a high proformance canopy.Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
blueshrew 0 #22 December 7, 2002 I would definitely recommend a Sabre2. When I was looking for my first canopy I tried out different things, and loved the Sabre2 right away. You can fly and land it easily as a newbie, and it can still give you a relatively decent swoop while landing straight. edit: I went with the size PD recommends for a novice on that canopy, so you can check the table to see what size would be best for you. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhino 0 #23 December 7, 2002 Stay with the Triathlon for 150 jumps. It is a fantastic canopy to learn accuracy with. It's slow flight characteristics are great! Learn to fly slow before you learn to fly fast! You cannot go wrong with the Triathlon. Phree is right.. The Diablo will kill you.. Rhino Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hohonukai 0 #24 December 8, 2002 Not to focus so much on the Monarch, but I jump one, and yes I heard they have hard openings, but I also found out the problem was fixed with a bigger slider. And my .02, I've encountered no hard openings except when I packed a shitty opening. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #25 December 8, 2002 Quote I also found out the problem was fixed with a bigger slider Quite a few canopies can be "fixed" by putting a larger slider on it, I hadn't met anyone that did that to their Monarch, though. Thanks for the good info. --"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites