teach their students to "feel" the flare?

[skyhighkiy 0]

well, I know during my canopy progression I was taught to "flare flare flare flare flare" and I should be at full extension by the last "flare" but I was thinking...nobody told me, at any time during my progression to take my staged flare, if you can call it that, and try to start feeling what my input is doing while I'm flaring. It's something I kind of just started doing and figured out it was essential.

Do any instructors tell their students to begin to feel what each stage does to their canopy? If no, why not?

BE THE BUDDHA!

[chachi 0]

The reason you were taught flare, flare, flare and keep flaring is because that is the basics of life saving. The basics you need to know to slow down and prevent injury. If we taught a staged, feel the flare type thing people would be thinking to much and not flaring enough. Even on a cross braced no matter what, you finish your flare even if you are skipping across the pond or ground. Flare = Brakes. People can get coaching later on flaring, staging it, and yes most figure out the a lot by just taking the basics and applying it to real world.

Keep learning all!! Keep safe!!

~Chachi

[AndyMan 7]

I teach people to "feel" out the different parts of their flare only after they've got their 'a' license, and I only tell them to "start thinking about it" rather than going out and doing it on the next jump. The "feel" of the flare can only be learned by doing, and can't be taught. I don't teach this to students because it'd be impossible to teach them everything they need to know to get it right on the first try.



_Am

__

You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead.

[CanuckInUSA 0]

Developing the "seat of the pants feel" that many pilots refer to while flaring is not something that can be taught to students (and as Chachi already outlined, potentially dangerous for the students). It is something that we as jumpers develop through our instincts over hundreds and hundreds of jumps.

Becoming a good canopy pilot is like a marathon. It's not a sprint.

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[skyhighkiy 0]

ok, understood, so it's just a matter of giving them too much information too quick.

Do you, as instructors (don't know if you guys are) ever watch the individual annd say "it's time to start feeling your flare" ? or do you wait until they come and ask you when they repeatedly make bad landings?

BE THE BUDDHA!

[LawnDart21 0]

As I do radio from time to time, I see very good landings, quite often actually, from students with the rehearsed "flare, flare, flare, flare, flare" landing tecnique. Good canopies (student or otherwise) will land just fine without "staging" a flare. To teach a student anything other than a straight flare is not necessary and just asking for trouble. If a student or even licensed jumper, cannot stand up a landing with a "student style" straight flare, then they have no need or reason to learn staged flares. If you can't walk, there is no sense in trying to run.

Side note, if you want to see alot of good canopy control, Dirt Water Dirt from Pier Media is like 60 minutes of great landing footage, good flares and bad flares. As the tape says, it isnt a training video, but it clearly shows the differnet types of flares that people are using.

--
My other ride is a RESERVE.

[Spizzzarko 0]

Dudes,

I posted this in another thread.


I think when people are talking about staged flares they are just passing on bad information! Think of it this way. in it's simplist form there are 3 areas to a landing.

1. Approach
2. Plane out
3. stopping

To transition from your approach to plane out you need to give input to the canopy wether it be toggles or rears. Now do you stop from there? NO. You have to give more input to the canopy to transition from plane out to stopping correct? Now I'm going to introduce a little bit more of a radical concept here, so everyone take a second and catch your breath.....


Let's first of all get rid of this concept of a two or three staged flare. You don't come in flare halfway, stop, and then flare the rest of the way do you? If so you are doing it wrong. Does that method work? Yes, sometimes, but we are a little more advanced than that, aren't we? I believed this concept was brought about by the ld timers who were transitioning from F-111 to ZEPO canopy's. They used this when their canopy's would ballon up when they flared all the way like they were used to with their F-111's.
Let's take the three area's that I spoke of earlier and make them into just one.

1. Landing

You need to start thinking this way because, when you are transitioning to smaller faster canopy's, landing doesn't just happen when your altitude reaches zero. Many of the high speed low drag dudes here will probably agree with me that landing for them starts just after they get everything stowed away after opening. Watch them, and talk to them, and you will soon see that every manuever they make is to set up for landing. There's really no more "Playing Around" when you get to small canopy's. Now let's get back to Landing. Your approach flare and stopping should all be one smooth movement. Only flare as much as you need to, to maintain the altitude above the ground that you want.

Try looking at the horizon during this part of you landing. I want you to standup right now and look at a far door knob or something out your window on the horizon. Now stand on your toes, and then back on your flat feet. Do you see the difference in your sight picture? Now how much have you actually moved? 3 to 4 inches if that.

Now that you have that mastered, think about continuing your flare only as much as you need to, so that your sight picture doesn't change! I told you it was going to get radicle! Now that we are flying flat and level over the gound we eventuall need to stop. Well just keep flaring, and maintaining your sight picture. Eventually you will have flared so much that your canopy will no longer beable to produce the amount of lift required to hold your body in the air. This is usually when you put your feet down on the ground.

I can't tell you how many people I see that don't fly their canopy to it's full potential, and then complain that their canopy doesn't have enough flare to support their fat ass's, and that they need to get a Velocity because it has a more powerfull flare

Learn to flare your canopy all of the way. You should not have to run out your landings very much if you are flaring it correctly, even on low wind to no wind days.

If you change your thought process, and learn to fly your canopy to it's fullest then you will be unstopable!



This is what I tell people if they are having problems landing. The FLARE FLARE FLARE FLARE Technique is not altogether a bad technique for those whom are just starting out. I have found that if you tell students a lot of shit then they perform shitty. Tell them only what they need to know to get the job done. The worst thing that I have to deal with as an instructor is the 100 jump wonder skydivers on the DZ that try to teach, and end up teaching the wrong stuff like this staged flare shite to a student. So I go and ask student snuffy why he didn't flare all the way, and he tells me that his new buddy upjumper over there told him to make a staged flare... Do you see what I'm getting at? You should take everything you hear at the DZ with a grain of salt, and look at whos giving you the info.

[Fab 0]

I jumped a student manta 280 today. Normally I'm jumping a pilot 168 and my landing are always good but I just 'crashed' my landing on the 280 today. I flared as I was used to on my pilot 168 (started a few feet above the ground but canopy just didn't respond to my flare). People on the ground said I flared too late (I always started my flare at this altitude). I flared all the way before i hit the ground and the canopy didn't even slowed down a bit. Giving advise on how to flare a (old) student chute based on you're own experience on a modern chute is a littly tricky to say the least :).

Best advice I think you could give is to practise flaring up high and get a feel for it by doing it a lot. I always have practised flaring up high when under a new (and smaller chute) but somehow forgot to do this today...Probably because the chute was huge and wasn't expecting a problem with it. Must say though that this chute was just terrible...I have never landed such a lousy student chute...

_______________________________________

[Spizzzarko 0]

You are comparing apples to oranges when comparing the pilot to the manta. The pilot it going to react a lot quicker to input than the manta will. So flaring a little low will give you the result that you experienced. You are absolutly correct about the practice flares. Someone once told me to hop and pop at altitude, and just do flares, and to feel the point of lift that will only sustain your suspended weight. That point of lift can be a constant but your hand position is not a constant. I didn't really realise what that person was saying untill I did many of these jumps and then it clicked. It means only flare as much as you need to to produce the amount of lift to maintain an altitude.