skajdajver 0 #1 August 11, 2004 Hi Im flying a Sabre2, 170 (wingload 1.0) Im trying to learn a front riser approach on landings. But im having problem with the front of the canopy getting unstable. It starts to get wobbly and feels really unstable. And it wont get any better even if i try to hang with the same amount of weight on both risers. Is it just me or is it the canopy? Off all things to believe in - why not yourself Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gus 1 #2 August 11, 2004 This question gets asked quite alot. It could be that as you pull on the front riser(s) you're also pulling down on the tail at the same time and sort of 'hobbling' the canopy. If that's the case your brake lines may need a bit more slack than they have at the moment. On your next jump try watching the tail as you pull on the front riser(s) and see what's happening. GusOutpatientsOnline.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #3 August 11, 2004 Its not just you, you're most likely getting "canopy buck" from the tail being deflected during your front riser manuever. As a rule of thumb with PD canopies, the factory settings on the brake lines are too short to complete front riser maneuvers with the toggles in your hands and deflect the tail. Thus most folks find that they have to lengthen their control line settings atleast 2 inches. Talk to your rigger about it and don't lengthen more then an inch at a time, then go jump and test it.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ManBird 0 #4 August 11, 2004 QuoteAs a rule of thumb with PD canopies, the factory settings on the brake lines are too short to complete front riser maneuvers with the toggles in your hands and deflect the tail.Totes. On my Sabre2 and on every new Sabre2 I've seen here at my home DZ, it's generally about four inches. This may be changing on the HP side. My Katana shipped with the lowers let out just right (maybe even a hair long). Reportedly, it's the same deal with Velos. And I know this is the case with the demo fleet of Katanas and Velocities, as well."¯"`-._.-¯) ManBird (¯-._.-´"¯" Click Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ianmdrennan 2 #5 August 11, 2004 QuoteMy Katana shipped with the lowers let out just right...Reportedly, it's the same deal with Velos. Yep, the Katana I jumped required zero changing of the factory setting brake lines and velocity brake lines come already bar tacked in the correct position as well (although I've heard of people lengthening them for personal preference, not because of tail deflection). Blues, IanPerformance Designs Factory Team Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #6 August 11, 2004 I knew I should have quantified that... On PD canopies except the Velo (and now the Katana I guess, never dealt with one). Even on their other "high performance" canopies the Vengence and the Stiletto, the lines are too short at the factory settings for front riser manuevers without deflecting the tail.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ianmdrennan 2 #7 August 11, 2004 QuoteI knew I should have quantified that... ....Even on their other "high performance" canopies the Vengence and the Stiletto, the lines are too short at the factory settings for front riser manuevers without deflecting the tail. No need I knew what you were getting at and I totally agree that most of their canopies come off the shelf with the brake lines too short. I believe the reason they do that is because people tend to have "lazy flares" and then complain that a canopy doesn't land as nicely because they aren't finishing the flare correctly. This obviously effects their decision to buy a canopy so it wouldn't surprise me if manufacturers, in general, "helped" the jumper out a bit by compensating for general bad habits. Blues, IanPerformance Designs Factory Team Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
goose491 0 #8 August 11, 2004 Quote...so it wouldn't surprise me if manufacturers, in general, "helped" the jumper out a bit by compensating for general bad habits. Makes sense to me. Also, being as potential buyers all have different arm length it's prolly a good idea to err on the safe side. I guess it's better to be too short, have an "early" flare and have to adjust after a wasted swoop attempt then it is to be too long, have "no" flare and have to adjust after a bad landing My Karma ran over my Dogma!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skajdajver 0 #9 August 12, 2004 Thanks alot I tried this out yesterday. After deployment i released the brakes and then let go of them. Then i did a front riser dive and it was all good without any wobbly feeling. So you were right, it was the brakelines making it wobbly. Off all things to believe in - why not yourself Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LoudDan 0 #10 August 12, 2004 All three Sabre II's I have owned had to have the brakes let out 2 to 4 inches. The last one I got had to be let out 5 inches, course I also added 25 inch risers to the mix, but everytime I let the brake lines out, the bucking went away, really noticeable after hook turns. Coming soon to a bowl of Wheaties near you!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ianmdrennan 2 #11 August 12, 2004 Glad it helped. Now I'd suggest not letting go of the toggles for landing but it's important to do the test with the toggles in your hand as it will let you see how much your brakelines should be lengthened. Blues, IanPerformance Designs Factory Team Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
