NewClearSports 0 #1 July 19, 2004 Hey Guys and Girls Who can tell me the real story between Icarus and Precision. At my DZ everyone loves Icarus and hates Precision. I fly a Xaos and I love it. The 1st thing that always comes up is the original Crossfire. Apparently the only ones needing the recall were built by Precision? Is this true? Why does Precision build Icarus' Canopys in the 1st place? The 2nd thing is when you go to the Precision Web Site you will read again and again "When we built the Extreme FX and VX" Did Precision make and design the original FX and VX and then sell it to Icarus or did Icuras design it and hired Precision to simply do the cutting and sewing? The only thing I know for sure is my Xaos opens better then any Icarus Canopy, well actually better then any canopy I have ever jumped, and it flies like a dream. Just curious to find out the real story Thanks Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #2 July 19, 2004 The following is my understanding after working in the industry for several years: Jyro, owner of NZ Aerosports is responsible for the initial design of the EXTreme, FX, and VX canopies. The Icarus company was created to market those designs. Precision and CIMSA were involved to manufacture them. PA did further design work on the canopies to improve openings, and performance. The ultimate result of which was released after the split between Icarus and PA. The Xaos, IMO the ultimate refinement of those designs. Several people "bought into" the Icarus projects and in return have shareholder interests in the company. AFAIK some of these people include Simon Mundel (formally Icarus Managing director), George Galloway (Owner Precision Aerodynamics, formerly on the Icarus board of directors.), the President of CIMSA (Manufacturing facility in Spain, and others. As to the Crossfire issue. Many stories went around, much blame was dropped on Precision because they were an easy target and Simon Mundel who had a huge personality conflict with George Galloway needed a scapegoat. Reality is the design was put to press long before it was tested fully. A personal friend of mine was among those to jump the prototype canopies in NZ where the designer built them. When the design was released he let me know his experience with the wing, and the inherent problems it had. He pointed out that he had not seen improvements or changes in the CF1 production model. It was not a properly designed canopy. When Icarus felt the need to release a service bulletin, it was spun so that the majority of "afflicted" canopies seemed to have been built in the US. The majority of ALL CF1's at that time had been manufactured in the US, plus very few of those canopies had any problem. European built canopies had just as high a chance of being afflicted. Another reason for peoples dislike of PA is their handling of the Service bulletin on Raven D.A.S.H. M reserve canopies. People seem to forget that manufactures have been issuing service bulletins since the dawn of time, most often at the end users/owners expense. There were a few instances of reserve damage on deployments, several of whish attributed fault to the canopy, where in fact much of the fault should have been placed on the end user for using the product outside of acceptable limits. In the end PA often gets a bad rap, as manufactures sometimes do because of their lack of "spin". Other manufacturers have been in the same positions, or suffered the same problems but have managed to "spin" their way out of it. Overall you ought to jump the product you both like and believe in.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #3 July 19, 2004 Oh yeah. Fill out your profile. It's rather annoying not to know who you're talking to.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dragon2 2 #4 July 19, 2004 CISMA is CIMSA tho right? ciel bleu, Saskia Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #5 July 19, 2004 Yeah.....just a brain fart.....---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkymonkeyONE 4 #6 July 19, 2004 She beat me to it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
piisfish 140 #7 July 19, 2004 well our DZ is a very PD oriented DZ (seems funny to write it like that as PD in french is a slang word for gay ), had a Sabre (original) now have a Safire2 139 and hopefully soon a Crossfire2 119. Have around 20 jumps on Fusions and Nitrons. I really love products from both PA and Icarus.scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chileanXaos 0 #8 July 19, 2004 I had better results with PA than with Icarus , I had a crossfire 1 that was in the bulletin and that when I used front risers the nose tucked in (very scary ) , Someone fixed it in Z-hills . then I bought a 99 crosfire from Icarus , and It arrived to my country and it was in the service list . so I send it back , and asked for my money. Now I have my Xaos-21 and I love it also I paid 1000 $ for it so even better .I know that there are lot of PD fans that say that is the best , I dont care I think it is only marketing , anyway my Xaos opens much better than velos.. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ianmdrennan 2 #9 July 19, 2004 Quote know that there are lot of PD fans that say that is the best , I dont care I think it is only marketing You are most definately entitled to that opinion, but it's a lot more than *marketing* that make PD a great company and stand out amongst the others. Blues, IanPerformance Designs Factory Team Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #10 July 19, 2004 QuoteYou are most definately entitled to that opinion, but it's a lot more than *marketing* that make PD a great company and stand out amongst the others. I'm not saying you're wrong, but like what?---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ianmdrennan 2 #11 July 20, 2004 QuoteI'm not saying you're wrong, but like what? Fair question. Here are some of my experiences with them. They've always bent over backwards for my wife and I in any purchase we've made (and anyone we know). From the 2 Velocities, Sabre2 and now Katana, to the demo's before we bought them. They've offered friendly, prompt service and have even offered advice to us on selling a piece of their gear privately. Basically I've found them extremely accessible and very very willing to help out with anything regarding their products. That about sums up my experiences with them. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying the other companies aren't good, but I hear far less bad things (if any) about PD than any other canopy manufacturer out there. Blue ones, IanPerformance Designs Factory Team Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
