Opening High for Bad Spots

[velo90 0]

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If you don't have prepared safe outs that you can land the canopy you are jumping in you shouldn't be jumping that canopy or you should prepare better.

Some dropzones are surrounded by potential hazards. Sometimes it does not run as planned.
Hell, after reading some posts here I get the feeling some dropzones in the U.S. are surrounded by man eating crocs
But you're right preparation always helps.

[chachi 0]

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Plain english: The higher you open, the less chance of a canopy collision. (period). The only exceptions to this are a second plane dropping a load within a few minutes of your load or a true down-wind jumprun.

Ever been on an Otter that shut off the green light and turned around and did a downwing jump run. Go to Eloy, it happens all the time. How would you know if you were out of the plane and then the pilot decided to do that. All I am saying is that increasing the possibility of an accident to save yourself a walk is in my opinion not what I want to see on my dz.

~Chachi

[mnischalke 0]

So they didn't offset the downwind jumprun? Wild.

Mark that off as one place I won't be jumping.

mike

Girls only want boyfriends who have great skills--You know, like nunchuk skills, bow-hunting skills, computer-hacking skills.

[chachi 0]

Maybe they did, maybe someone flew off the wind line, maybe maybe maybe. I just don't understand the hate on to landing somewhere a little off to take some form of added danger out of the skydive. I mean, most dz's will even come get you if your more than a little walk away. Why add potential risk when it is not needed just to accomodate lazy legs.

~Chachi

[chachi 0]

Oh, and one more point, we should be teaching big drop zone habits, and potential dangers even if we are jumping at a small cessna dropzone in buttfuck, Whereeverville. That way when people go to big dropzones like Eloy, Perris, or to major boogies like WFFC and there is multiple airplane, jumping on an airport, or whatever people make smart decisions that have been engrained there little noggins and don't make dummy moves. So when you come to my dropzone I will show you all of the safe alternative landing areas but we are ona major flight line into Vancouver Int'l Airport and opening high causes a bunch of air traffic controllers asses to pucker. My dropzone is not the only place with air problems but multiple airplanes dropping loads have problems unless they know ahead of time what is going on. Keep it safe, PLAN THE DIVE AND DIVE THE PLAN.

~Chachi

[velo90 0]

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don't understand the hate on to landing somewhere a little off to take some form of added danger out of the skydive.

We are not talking about a little walk. We are talking about a place with restricted outs.

Your problem is with multiple jumps planes. It's only my opinion, but if you are not planning your jump runs so that there is adequate separation between drops, you are doing things wrong.

You can offset the jump runs, you can leave 5 mins ( at a guess) between jump runs, but you cannot rely on no one pulling higher.

[chachi 0]

Well, if you are now arguing that in a place with very few or no outs should I pull high or risk paralysis or a stick up the ass from landing in tree I would say make a safe decision but in 99% of the dropzones you go to there are outs on all sides of the compass. The way I perceived the thread to start and continue was should on an average dropzone where you are not going to make it back should you pull high, I would say no. If I was in the jungle or glades of Florida and it was hitting the swamp or the dz, sure I would pull high. Your arguing semantics now though and playing devils advocate. I don't believe we should teach poeple in the average situation to just change plans and pull high unless the circumstances of a possible fatal or seriously dangerous landing were the only other options presented to you.

~Chachi

[mnischalke 0]

Simply, as has been stated many times in this thread, the number of deaths and injuries occurring in off-field landings greatly outnumber deaths and injuries caused by falling through another canopy at an altitude higher than the traditional deployment window of 2-3.5k. As a matter of fact, I know of no instances of this happening. Please feel free to educate me if I have missed something.

mike

Girls only want boyfriends who have great skills--You know, like nunchuk skills, bow-hunting skills, computer-hacking skills.

[velo90 0]

No devils advocate, my dropzone where we have plenty of outs, pull high if you are hosed. But there again, we understand at least someting about separation, so it's not a problem.
If it makes you happier, we don't have multiple jump planes either.

[johnny1488 1]

Im usually pretty good with visualizing this stuff but I gotta admit, Im having a real tough time letting go of the ground with the seperation thing. With canopy flight it was real easy to understand but for some reason this just isnt clicking as easy. I think I might have to find a way to get a hold of microsoft office so I can look at Kallends powerpoint presentation. Or maybe I forgot to pay my brain bill this month.

Johnny
--"This ain't no book club, we're all gonna die!"
Mike Rome

[velo90 0]

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Im having a real tough time letting go of the ground with the seperation

I know, it's hard, been there and done that.

Draw something on paper and then pretend your are landing at 3000ft. That's where you need separation, not on the ground. Does this help?

[mnischalke 0]

Dude. let it go!!!!

If you look at the winds aloft and then factor in group size of the group in front of you, you can gauge your separation simply every time.

I like to ask the pilot (or look at the gps if possible) for groundspeed so I can see if the winds aloft are still current, but this groundspeed is just an indicator for the speed of the winds at that altitude, if the airplane is flying it's normal jumprun speed. I look at the ground only to check the spot. If you pay attention to how fast the plane is traveling across the ground, you are being distracted from looking for other aircraft in your airspace by something which is completely inaccurate as it is based on your perception of an object moving 2.5 miles away.

Winds aloft are what get you to the right spot above the ground. Once you're open, you can then decide if you're gonna make it to the spot on the ground or if you got to find a new place to land (which may kill you).

mike

Girls only want boyfriends who have great skills--You know, like nunchuk skills, bow-hunting skills, computer-hacking skills.

[chachi 0]

Well, I whizzed by a canopy in freefall once, far but to close for me and I think the odds are probably quite large but still I would rather avoid the circumstance again. The problem of injuries is not one of a quick fix it is a matter of people being educated and prepared to land at another place close to their dropzone. If you landed in the same spot every time forever and ever you may have diffculty landing even on another dz and hurt yourself. You should educate as to safe landing outs in all compass directions around your dz preparing people to do this if necessary. The problem is that people have no clue and injure themselves when they panic, or have no clue of obstacles they must avoid. So do what you wish, I still believe it is safest and in everyones best interest to know what people are doing around you, and I also believe we should educate people like they are jumping in the biggest zoo on the planet so when they get there immediate reactions are not to go and do something not in the best interest of the jumpers around them.

~Chachi

[mnischalke 0]

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Well, I whizzed by a canopy in freefall once, far but to close for me and I think the odds are probably quite large but still I would rather avoid the circumstance again.

So, were you sliding or was he? How much separation did you give him on exit? Altitude of occurance? I am interested in hearing your story.

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problem of injuries is not one of a quick fix it is a matter of people being educated and prepared to land at another place close to their dropzone.

If you're really educated, you shouldn't have to worry about landing out. OTOH, there are plenty of dz which have places you DO NOT want to land and there are NO OUTs for miles. I can think of two in florida I have jumped at in the last 45 days.

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So do what you wish, I still believe it is safest and in everyones best interest to know what people are doing around you,

Would it help if I yelled really loud before I dumped at 5k?

mike

Girls only want boyfriends who have great skills--You know, like nunchuk skills, bow-hunting skills, computer-hacking skills.

[chachi 0]

Well arguing on the internet is like being in the special olympics and I feel like I am about to win a gold medal. I think that there are merits for each argument I just am a big proponent of people doing in the air what is planned on the ground. Where people opening high inform pilots, and other people and exit right before the tandems. If you have jumped in so many locations with no outs anywhere I can understand why you would be biased toward your arguments. I have jumped in quite a few dz's and always believed that I had options. I'm going to bow out and take the silver on this one.

~Rob

PS. Brian was right, talking and giving each others opinions makes us all safer.

[mnischalke 0]

OT...

Q. what's better than winning a gold medal in the special olympics?






A. Not being retarded.

No offense if you are retarded.

mike

Girls only want boyfriends who have great skills--You know, like nunchuk skills, bow-hunting skills, computer-hacking skills.