WrongWay 0 #1 February 2, 2004 I'm currently jumping a Sabre2 150 at about a 1.40 w/l and I'm wanting something with a little more swoop, and a little kick to it, but nothing I'm gonna kill myself under. For the record, I am NOT planning on downsizing. I have read up a bit on the following canopies but have not demo'ed (spelling?) any of them yet. I've been told numerous times by our local airlocked canopy nazi () about the wonders of airlocks, and they sound awesome, now I just need to jump one. However, the latter also sounds excellent, but hey, I'm looking for opinions. Vengeance Samurai Crossfire2 Who has jumped these canopies, and from your own experiences, what would you recommend??? Any info would be great. Thanks, and be safe!! Wrong Way D #27371 Mal Manera Rodriguez Cajun Chicken Ø Hellfish #451 The wiser wolf prevails. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CanuckInUSA 0 #2 February 3, 2004 I know plenty of people who like the Vengence as well as the Samurai. One thing to keep in mind of the Crossfire2 is, that while it is not a air locked canopy, the nose is formed in a manner which performs similarly to the air locks. I fly a Crossfire2 139 and absolutely love it (I was able to swoop 2/3 of the main landing area in Eloy and I'm loading it a few hairs under 1.6:1). Chances are you won't go wrong with any one of these canopies. But you know which one I would vote for. Try not to worry about the things you have no control over Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #3 February 3, 2004 Sabre2's can and will swoop HARD if flown to do that. Especially at 1.4:1. I've taken a Sabre2 190 (loaded at 1.47:1 about 250ft (the "swoop lane" at my DZ has marks every 100ft), but the winds were just right and I hit the approach perfectly (for once)... I've jumped a Vengence and a XF2 both loaded at 1.9-ish:1, they both swoop very well. The XF2 was faster then the Vengence, but I was getting about the same swoop out of both of them. The Vengence just seems to keep going and going, when you think you're going too slow and its going to start setting down, it just seemed to get a bit more distance and keep going. That was very cool. For "zip" in turns and such they were both comparible, but I personally found the XF2 to turn a bit quicker, although it seemed that the Vengence had a bit longer recovery arc. Demo them all, see what you like, since all of my comments were obviously just opinions. Sorry, I can't comment on a Samurai, haven't jumped one (yet), but I've heard a lot of good things about them!--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skygod7777 0 #4 February 3, 2004 i've got a few jumps under the xfire 2 and the vengence (about 75 or so on each). and they are both nice canopies. the turn rate, i'm not sure, i don't pay attention to that. the dives are pretty similar, but i still would say with a nice 270, i was starting the xfire higher than i was with the vengence, it at least felt like it. i got better swoops with the xfire, it just seams to have more rear riser power. they both good, but the xfire has a longer snivil, but it's not really any softer just longer. the sam, i took one home to jump, and never had the chance to jump it. so i can't comment on that, but from what i've seen they are nice canopies. all in all, you would be happy with either one. but, i've seen some pretty sick swoops under a sabre 2. i mean, they will go if you push them. so just keep that in mind when your about to drop 1500 bucks on a new canopy, that you'll more than likely only get like another 50 or so feet once you max them out, because at 1.4 on the xfire 2 of the vengence isn't anywhere near the peak performance, so you won't really have much of an advantage. but that's just my opinion. later Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
frankiebrina 0 #6 February 3, 2004 Tomorrow I'm off to Deland to demo a few. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 20 #7 February 3, 2004 Perhaps you might want to actually push the canopy you are flying before you go to something else That Sabre2 should be able to kick my Jedei's tail any day of the week. I'm sure in 3 or 4 jumps on that thing I'd be better on your new Sabre2 then my worn out, smaller, heavier loaded Jedei for swoops. Come see me after the season starts and we'll work on your landings. I have'nt seen much more then 90's for landing and instead of getting some other canopy why don't you work on 180's or 270's with me this season? With me building blades and setting up a course for myself to run this year you should be able to work on swoop gate entry, accuracy and high proformance landings. Plus with Scott Miller and some of the other people coming through the DZ, there is plenty of learning to be done this year.Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jimbo 0 #8 February 3, 2004 Don't forget to try the Nitro(n) (is there a difference?), the new Vision, and the Cobalt. As long as you're playing the demo game you may as well try them all, right? - Jim"Like" - The modern day comma Good bye, my friends. You are missed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #9 February 3, 2004 QuoteOne thing to keep in mind of the Crossfire2 is, that while it is not a air locked canopy, the nose is formed in a manner which performs similarly to the air locks. No, it doesn't. The purpose of a formed nose is to clean up the leading edge of the canopy, thus providing a cleaner airfoil and retaining lift across more of the airfoil. Air locks instead maintain a higher pressure in the cells of the canopy by preventing the air escaping in low pressure situations (i.e. turbulence, and flare). When a Crossfire reaches zero airspeed with a full flare it will deflate rapidly. An airlocked design will not.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #10 February 3, 2004 QuoteDon't forget to try the Nitro(n) (is there a difference?), Only the fabric they are made of, and of course the plant they are manufactured in. The Nitron (Precision) is made of Soarcoat (same as PD, Aerodyne, ect.) The Nitro is made of Galvanor (same as old PISA, Atair, ect.)---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #11 February 3, 2004 QuoteWho has jumped these canopies, and from your own experiences, what would you recommend??? I'd recomend you not only demo theem but others as well. My beef with airlocks so far (experience with 5 canopys, 3 Vengance, 2 Jedi) is the openings. They always seem to be brisker (harder) that I like, and have experienced from most of my mains. Don't leave out the Stiletto, it's tried and true, and a good pilot under one will still beat the snot out of a large percentage of the field.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #12 February 3, 2004 QuoteThey always seem to be brisker (harder) A guy I knew basically H-modded his Sam and it opens better now. It also flies faster. He said he's never doing it again, though, since it took him a very long time to do.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 20 #13 February 3, 2004 If you are not liking the openings on a BigAir canopy all you have to do is call Brian and he's got a list of things that can be changed to alter the openings. I've jumped a few of the canopies as tests and they opened just as he wanted the openings to change. There was a Jedei opening fast that we greatly slowed, and then there was my Jedei that I sped up just a little bit by making some of the changes reccommended to me. The Vengence is a PD baby and they have some help if you are not liking the openings. Big Air openings tend to be quick, but not painful at all. I like mine longer and that was fixed on my Jedei.Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #14 February 3, 2004 QuoteIf you are not liking the openings on a BigAir canopy all you have to do is call Brian and he's got a list of things that can be changed to alter the openings. As I've said before, I've never jumped a Samuri or any other Big Air canopy, I was just relating a story that may be relevent to someone, or may not.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JJohnson 0 #15 February 3, 2004 I've got to agree. I only demo-ed one Sam 120 and the opening could only be described as super fast yet strangely soft as the prom queen's thighs. When it started to open I thought it was going to ring my bell, I was pleasently suprised.JJ "Call me Darth Balls" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Pablito 0 #16 February 3, 2004 Hey man, how are you. Call brian get a Samurai 150 demo, he has a new design on the nose, he said its awesome. The Samurai is more responsive than the vengance the same size, cause the line are shorter and the design is a bit diffent. It is a bit faster than the vengance and the airlocks give you that extra lift at the end. so you can do a nice swoop (really close to the ground and lift it by the end no problem). Call Kola at PD and ask her for a vengance 150 demo. they are fun canopies I jumped a vengance fro about 700 jumps or more and i had a blast (a 135 and a 120). I learned a lot from them but i prefered the Samurai over it (about 200 jumps in a samurai 105, I bought the 105 after demoing a 120 that was amazing). I never jumped a XF but i heard good thing out of them. Try the Nitron, is a fun canopy i had a blast in the 20 jumps that i put on one, they are similar to the stiletto and to the vengance, (is a wierd mixture, short recovery arch, but you can held it a bit longer no problem like the vengance) is a fun canopy. Try everything then make your decision according to what you want and what you felt. Cielos Azules Pablito "If you don't overcome your fears they will overcome you first" Shady Monkey/6Segundos Rodriguez/AKA Pablito Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
crawford 0 #17 February 3, 2004 I would like to put in my vote for the Stiletto. I have gone through several canopies in the last few years. Had problems with a bunch of them. Like several have stated, demo all that you can. But as far as over-all excellent canopy, my vote goes to the Stiletto. Hope this helps. "Sure, those Golf Carts may look all warm and fuzzy, but they WILL take a chunk out of your ass!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TimDave 0 #18 February 4, 2004 I have about 300 jumps on my Xfire2 (1.65:1) and about 30 jumps on a Sam (1.7:1). The openings on the Xfire2 are unprecidented and the canopy is fun to fly and has great swoops. The Sam openings were nice also but were a little quicker. I liked the swoops on the Sam better and the riser pressure was much lighter. You won't go wrong with either of these but you will go more right with the Sam. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BrianSGermain 1 #19 February 5, 2004 Instructional Videos:www.AdventureWisdom.com Keynote Speaking:www.TranscendingFEAR.com Canopies and Courses:www.BIGAIRSPORTZ.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #20 February 5, 2004 QuoteLearn more: Live longer. Apt words to live by. I'd like to think I do. Any reason you suspect I don't?---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BrianSGermain 1 #21 February 6, 2004 Actually, I have no reason to believe that at all. I accidentally hit "reply", without typing anything. That's just my tag line... Opps. Sorry.Instructional Videos:www.AdventureWisdom.com Keynote Speaking:www.TranscendingFEAR.com Canopies and Courses:www.BIGAIRSPORTZ.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #22 February 6, 2004 QuoteOpps. Yeah that's an ooppps for me to, I'd realized what you'd done later, but was too late to modify my reply. Are you gonna be around Z-Hills in April?---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BrianSGermain 1 #23 February 6, 2004 I'm not sure. If TK invites me to do a camp, I would be happy to show up. I am traveling all over these days, and my base isn't in Z-Hills anymore. When I go "home", it is to Upstate New York. There's more to do up there for someone like me.Instructional Videos:www.AdventureWisdom.com Keynote Speaking:www.TranscendingFEAR.com Canopies and Courses:www.BIGAIRSPORTZ.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dgskydive 0 #24 February 6, 2004 QuoteDon't forget to try the Nitro(n) (is there a difference?), the new Vision, No difference between the Nitro and the Nitron. They are the same canopy. I am jumping a 135 Nitro right now that I got from Beezy. I love it. Greast landings and nice openings. The Vision is also very good. It is a 1/4 step down from the Nitro or Nitron and maybe 1/2 a step down from the Stiletto. I would recommend you try a Vision first. It may be just the thing for you. It is suited much better fr the first time Eliptical pilot. It has a short recovery Arch and will give you more of a chance to dig it out if you have to.Dom Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
