garywainwright 0 #1 December 9, 2003 A friend of mine was in Z Hills recently and asked for a Vengeance 120 demo. All was fine until he opened up and it was a Velocity 120. Conclusion of story is he loved it and I think hes about to order one! Now thats aggressive selling! (he has 1000 jumps, weighs 205 lbs and is currently jumping a Sabre2 135 which he swoops very nicely)http://www.garywainwright.co.uk Instagram gary_wainwright_uk Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ivanrockon 0 #2 December 9, 2003 That is not an aggresive selling policy that's a major f#$@ up from someone sending the wrong canopy. Imagine if that canopy would had fallen to the wrong hand and the user end up going in. Ivan "Rock On" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ccowden 0 #3 December 9, 2003 So they handed him a demo rig that had a Velocity packed inside? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
blair700 0 #4 December 9, 2003 I 'heard' last weekend that PD was no longer going to produce the Vengence. Anyone care to comment on this 'rumor'?? Don't know if this would have anything to do with what your friend experienced. Blair Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NeedToJump 0 #5 December 9, 2003 See this thread for information about the Vengence being discontinued.Wind Tunnel and Skydiving Coach http://www.ariperelman.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cloud9 0 #6 December 9, 2003 If you can safely fly and land a Vengeance 120 then you wouldn't have any problem doing the same with a Velocity 120. I don't see it as that big a deal. Now if the request was for a 150 something and they gave him a 120 that could be major. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ivanrockon 0 #7 December 9, 2003 QuoteIf you can safely fly and land a Vengeance 120 then you wouldn't have any problem doing the same with a Velocity 120. I don't see it as that big a deal. Now if the request was for a 150 something and they gave him a 120 that could be major. I believe (based on the origin of this thread) that is what happened. Read carefully, the guy jumps a Sabre2, ask for a Vengeance demo and receives a Velocity instead of the Vengeance. I own a Vengeance and a Velocity and there is a major difference between them, so yeah it is a big deal. Ivan "Rock On" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ianmdrennan 2 #8 December 9, 2003 QuoteI own a Vengeance and a Velocity and there is a major difference between them, so yeah it is a big deal. The same size? I don't think the canopies are so radically different (not that they aren't different) that it would major cause for alarm. In fact I've always felt that the velo feels much bigger than the non-xbraced counterparts. But that's just my opinion. Blue skies IanPerformance Designs Factory Team Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ivanrockon 0 #9 December 9, 2003 QuoteI don't think the canopies are so radically different (not that they aren't different) that it would major cause for alarm. No they are not the same size, but when I demoed the Velocity96 vs the Vengeance97 I noticed some difference but not that would cause an alarm. You may be right on your comment, BUT, there is a major difference between Sabre and Velocity that is the focus of my comment from the origin of this thread. Ivan "Rock On" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ccowden 0 #10 December 9, 2003 I find it hard to believe this even happened. Sounds like a bit of a story to me. I really doubt PD would take a guy who wanted a Vengeance and go- "Shhhhhh, don't tell him but we have secretly given him a Velocity to see what he thinks." It was either a mistake, in which case if someone was trying a Vengeance 120 for their first time then they could easily fly a Velocity 120 in as cautiously for a safe landing. Or it didn't happen at all. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Miami 0 #11 December 9, 2003 QuoteQuoteI own a Vengeance and a Velocity and there is a major difference between them, so yeah it is a big deal. The same size? I don't think the canopies are so radically different (not that they aren't different) that it would major cause for alarm. In fact I've always felt that the velo feels much bigger than the non-xbraced counterparts. But that's just my opinion. Blue skies Ian I agree with Ian...while I am happy jumping my crossbraced 78 at a dz a mile above sea level, I would never jump a non-crossbraced 78 here. Crossbraced canopies just fly bigger.Miami Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gus 1 #12 December 10, 2003 QuoteI find it hard to believe this even happened. Yes it happened. I know Gary (who started this thread) and the guy who was given the wrong canopy. It's no 'story' but I think the 'agressive selling policy' comment was meant more tongue in cheek than it's been taken. GusOutpatientsOnline.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sdctlc 0 #13 December 10, 2003 QuoteQuoteI find it hard to believe this even happened. Yes it happened. I know Gary (who started this thread) and the guy who was given the wrong canopy. It's no 'story' but I think the 'agressive selling policy' comment was meant more tongue in cheek than it's been taken. Gus The problem is not with PD if it was just a demo canopy, things happen when something is sent out. If that was the case here then the person receiving it should have noticed. When I have demoed a canopy that was sent to me I have always given it a good looksie to make sure all was OK and that it was what I wanted. Secondly anybody that is equipted to jump either canopy should know the differences between them and realize that that packing a "7" cell closed leading edge design is a bit different k then a "9" cell airlocked design. At least I would think they would in nothing else then the number of lines. If it was a demo "rig" that was mislabled or just handed off incorrectly then yes I would say that the error would be with PD. I seem to recall that there was a story about a PD canopy being hooked up backwards by PD earlier this year at a boogie they were doing demos. Stuff happen if they are supplying the rig to demo or packing their rig into your container to test jump. Never the less, IMHO, with the two canopies noted in this thread I believe that if you can fly a 120 Vengence then you can fly a 120 Velocity. Scott C."He who Hesitates Shall Inherit the Earth!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #14 December 10, 2003 I think the technical term is a "fuck up". It happens, that's why jumpers should have enough responsiblity to realize what they have recieved and what they're capable of. If it happened to me, I'd call Kolla, we'd have a good laugh about it and the correct canopy and the canopy I recieved would most like pass each other on the UPS truck. *shrug* Shit happens. People need to take their personal safety as their own personal responsibilty.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
grega 0 #15 December 10, 2003 Probably they had two boxes one with vengance 120 and other with velocity 120. And they probably send each to the wrong recipient. No doubt the one that got velocity, but expected vengance is happy. I wonder what the other, that was expecting velocity, sais about vengance "George just lucky i guess!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cpoxon 0 #16 December 10, 2003 Quotethe correct canopy and the canopy I recieved would most like pass each other on the UPS truck. QuoteAll was fine until he opened up and it was a Velocity 120. Sounds to me like the person demo'd a rig off the shelf and discovered what canopy it was upon deployment! If Gary and Gus know who it is, then I probably do too and am curious to find out, so PM me please! Nearly everyone from Langar has been to Zhills recently, except me :-(, so it could be anyone!Skydiving Fatalities - Cease not to learn 'til thou cease to live Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kolla 0 #17 December 10, 2003 Hello Gary! Thanks for your post - I would really like to get a little bit more information, so I can find out exactly what happened. It's not clear to me if the person demoed the canopy directly from PD or if he/she got the demo through one of the on-site dealers. Also - the difference between a Vengeance and Velocity is quite noticeable- did the person not assemble/pack the main or did he/she get it already packed up? When we send out demos, you get the canopy on risers, but you have to have your own container, complete with a d-bag & pilot chute. The canopies come in a bag, and in the bag is a cover sheet stating the product model & size, so there shouldn't be any doubt as to what is being packed up. The same information is also on the warning label of the canopy - which is clearly visible when pro-packing. We don't claim to never make mistakes - unfortunately it happens from time to time. However, we try our best to be very careful about making sure that the correct item ships, no matter what the item. Also... normally I catch flack for being not aggressive enough when it comes to my demo customers ! I'm glad that the person that ended up under the Velocity 120 had the experience and skills to be able to enjoy that canopy!Blue Skies Magazine Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
garywainwright 0 #18 December 10, 2003 It did happen and it was a mistake - my comment about an aggressive selling policy was an attempt at humour. it wasn't direct from pd either, it was a dealer.http://www.garywainwright.co.uk Instagram gary_wainwright_uk Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
