WayneRATS 0 #1 November 10, 2003 i asked this a while ago like there is a warp program and a CF program is there any swoop progression program written down anywhere, can any one suggest a program to folllow to get to a set standard in surf and swoop landings? i have already attended a canopy control class that covers basics and am looking for info on higher performance landings danke, thanks cheers .. etc ..------------------------ Can You Ere Me Now? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Spizzzarko 0 #2 November 10, 2003 I would suggest that you learn about braked approaches first. This will give you some more necessary survival skills, for when some jackass decides to swoop in the same place and time that your trying to. Once you learn those I would practice front riser use up high. Once you get that down, then I would set up long and out and use double fronts straight in for approach to landing. Why should you land out? There's no real need to be learning how to swoop in a crowded landing area. Also practice making a smotth transition from fronts to risers. (NEVER TAKE YOUR HANDS OUT OF THE TOGGLES) Once you get proficient with that, then you can think about 90's. Again practice up high,watching how much altitude you lose in a 90 degree front riser turn. Set up no lower than the maximum altitude you lost! Do this over and over again. Once you think you are proficient with them, then practice some more. You can practice up high all you want, you only have one chance at the bottom end. Then try 180's using the same method of altitude recognition. It's going to be a totally different sight picture, so you need to practice practice practicepractice practice. Give up free fall, it does you no good any ways, and just practice your turns.... That's all i have to say about that. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Spizzzarko 0 #3 November 10, 2003 Oh, by the way, what is a warp program? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WayneRATS 0 #4 November 10, 2003 W.A.R.P worldwide approved reletavework progression or summit bit like skydive u .. but older... cheers for that i usually approach in brakes and let up to full drive at about 50 feet whats all this about using rears to surf? ... ------------------------ Can You Ere Me Now? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CanuckInUSA 0 #5 November 10, 2003 As Spizzarko has said. Practice, practice, practice and do all new skills up high before you try them down low. Quotewhats all this about using rears to surf? ... Don't worry about this right now. But using your rear risers helps lengthen the distance of your swoops. At some point I want to start doing rear riser swoops, but I won't be doing them low to the ground until I've practiced them up high (I have started practicing up high, but don't feel ready to try them down low yet). Try not to worry about the things you have no control over Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Spizzzarko 0 #6 November 10, 2003 Here's for Wayne and the invader from the north (Canuck) hahaha. I use rears to land. It gives you a significantly longer surf, but it's tricky to learn. I think every one should practice using rears to land up high. Yes you can land a canopy with a broken steering line. Give this a try... Do a front riser turn (up high of course) and then immediatley jam on the rears as if (god forbid) you have lost a toggle out of your hand or a steering line broke. Watch your pilot chute and the rear of your canopy as you apply pressure to the rears. It will stall at a very high airspeed. Although, the onset of the stall will be very smoothe. Nothing like a toggle stall. You can even hold this for awhile, and watch what the canopy does. Yes you should learn how to fly in your rears, but like I said in the earlier post, practice practice practice up high. Canuck, I do use my rears up here in Colorado, but I transfer to the toggles when I feel the rears becoming un-effecient. If you see some guy's holding the rears for a long time in the swoop and then jamming on the toggles,they went a little TO far on the rears. It only shortens their swoop. You will have to start your flare higher than you would with toggles, otherwise it will stall out, and you will go from swooping to sliding across the ground. It sucks when that happens, and it's pretty self critiquing when the entire drop zone comes out of the hangar to laugh at you, TRUST ME I KNOW!!! Wayne, The temp drops when you are closeer to the sun, because you don't have the heat radiating off the earths surface to warm you. I noticed you asked this several times in your posts, and nobody responded to you... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CanuckInUSA 0 #7 November 10, 2003 QuoteDo a front riser turn (up high of course) and then immediatley jam on the rears as if (god forbid) you have lost a toggle out of your hand or a steering line broke. Watch your pilot chute and the rear of your canopy as you apply pressure to the rears. It will stall at a very high airspeed. I am aware that I will stall at a higher air speed with my rear risers (Derrick told me this in his canopy control course). But I never thought to look at my pilot chute and the tail of my canopy while practicing. So I'll give it a try next time I'm playing up high. QuoteI do use my rears up here in Colorado, but I transfer to the toggles when I feel the rears becoming un-effecient. If you see some guy's holding the rears for a long time in the swoop and then jamming on the toggles,they went a little TO far on the rears. It only shortens their swoop. You will have to start your flare higher than you would with toggles, otherwise it will stall out, and you will go from swooping to sliding across the ground. It sucks when that happens, and it's pretty self critiquing when the entire drop zone comes out of the hangar to laugh at you, TRUST ME I KNOW!!! There's only a handful of people who use their rear risers here at my DZ. So I haven't been able to watch them as much as I'd like to. I do watch my Pro Swoop Tour videos and watch how those guys transition from their rears to their toggles, but I guess things are different at our density altitudes. Thanks for the info though as it gives me something to look for the next time out. Try not to worry about the things you have no control over Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Spizzzarko 0 #8 November 10, 2003 You can also learn a lot by filling your camel back up with beer, getting a comfortable chair, some sunglasses, and just watch every one land for a day. It gets to be pretty humurous some times. I did it this year at nationals - minus the beer. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WayneRATS 0 #9 November 12, 2003 turned a right 180- front riser to final today and found if i pulled it down alot the canopy bucked .. what is this all about.. do i need to lengthen my brakes?------------------------ Can You Ere Me Now? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
marks 0 #10 November 12, 2003 Quoteturned a right 180- front riser to final today and found if i pulled it down alot the canopy bucked .. what is this all about.. do i need to lengthen my brakes? most likely it is the brake lines... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WayneRATS 0 #11 November 12, 2003 okies will get a few inches put on em------------------------ Can You Ere Me Now? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ianmdrennan 2 #12 November 12, 2003 HooknSwoop has posted some good stuff on checking break line length but basically after you open get everything ready (including clear airspace) and pull on the front riser. While you are doing this look at the canopy tail and break lines - there should be NO pulling down (deflection) of the tail. If there is the lines need to be lengthened. It may take a couple of jumps to get it figured out but it's worth it. Also remember that your sweet spot flare point will get lower accordingly. Blue skies IanPerformance Designs Factory Team Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Spizzzarko 0 #13 November 12, 2003 I would deffinatly have to aggree with Ian. I see a lot of canopy's with their control lines to short. I would recomend lengthining them so there is a slight bow in your steering lines in full flight. i know with Icarus canopy's I add about 3.5 to 4 inches to the factory steering line mark. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
blu 0 #14 November 12, 2003 3.5 to 4 in that's a lot....i i have my new vx coming in next week and i was thingink of adding 2 inches but 4!!!!? ***Keep it fun, stay alive*** Safe swoops Azul Follow Orbita on Twitter @freeflyorbita Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
trigger 0 #15 November 13, 2003 3.5 to 4 in that's a lot...I agree! I jump an Icarus and my brakes lines were set 2inches longer than factory settings which affected the bottom end flare[canopy continued to sink even at full extention]perfect now the're set exactly at factory settings.... I guess it's not a question of one length suits all.CHOP WOOD COLLECT WATER. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
andy2 0 #16 November 13, 2003 I had to lengthen my damn brake lines 5 inches! Of course someone had messed with them and set them higher than factory setting so that they were braking while in full flight. But a good reminder maybe you bought a canopy used and not new, who knows what the former owner could of done to it? --------------------------------------------- let my inspiration flow, in token rhyme suggesting rhythm... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Spizzzarko 0 #17 November 13, 2003 I tend to like a long flare stroke. Lengthening the brake lines doesn't change the flare or the bottom end, it changes the flare point in your flare. It moves that "Sweet Spot" down. If you make them to long then you may not beable to flare the entire way. I think the sink that you are talking about is just a psycological thing. You may feel the canopy sinking because you are used to it planning out at a certian point in your flare, but you moved that point a little further down in your flare, so your mind thinks it's sinking out. With the longer brake lines you will not get a buffet when doing front riser inputs. This allows the canopy to gain more speed in the turn, and swoop farther, and as we all know it doesn't matter what you do, but how you look while you are doing it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
andy2 0 #18 November 13, 2003 hey anyone care to comment on this, if you can stall your canopy with a deep smooth flarestroke then you're able to use all the effective flare (obliviously staying above the stall point on actual landings ). I'm just wondering if this is a good way to judge whether or not you've lengthened your brakes too long? (i.e. if you cant stall the canopy even with a deep flare up high then you might of lengthened them too long?) --------------------------------------------- let my inspiration flow, in token rhyme suggesting rhythm... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Spizzzarko 0 #19 November 13, 2003 I think a lot of you guys are getting wrapped around the axle about this line lengthening thing. The only real purpose of it is to make sure you do not deflect the tail of your canopy when you are giving a front riser input. You can check your canopy in full flight by looking at your brake lines and seeing if there is a slight arc in them in full flight. If they are taught at full flight then you will probably deflect the tail when you use front's. This causes an ineffecient turn. There are countless canopy's set up this way. It's not a life or death situation to have your brake lines to short. If you are going to lengthen your lines I suggest that you only do it about an inch at a time untill you find that you give no deflection in your tail when making a front riser input!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Don't just add 4 inches and then go up and jump your canopy and find that it wont flare all the way with out taking a wrap. That would be assinign. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
twnsnd 1 #20 November 13, 2003 I just had my fx 104 relined and had to add 4 inches. -We are the Swoophaters. We have travelled back in time to hate on your swoops.- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
