Hook pattern vs regular pattern

[PhreeZone 20]

Something was mentioned in another thread that I'm not understanding and was wondering if someone could assist me in understanding it. It was mentioned that if your DZ has a left hand pattern then its better to do a right hand 270 degree turn. In my mind I'm seeing a right hand turn as directly conflicting with the rest of the traffic since if you bail at only 180 degrees around you are suddenly going head on to people on their base leg. Yes you take the column of air on the other side of the "lane" then the other patterns, but is it better to use that column or better to never have to go head to head if you bail?

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[davelepka 4]

I think the idea is that you can follow the downind and base legs of the pattern. While on base, with your swoop lane to your left, the right 270 will put you on track. This way swoopers can follow the same pattern as everyone else. The swooper will blend with traffic right up unitll the 270, at which point a quick check of traffic will clear the space for the 270. If traffic should prevent the 270, you could follow the patterne and land straight in (or at least continue down the downwind leg and pull a 90 onto final for a little swoop).

The setup for the left 270 involves flying against the flow of traffic on the downwind leg just before your swoop.

I'm not sure of which is better. BUT. I will say that anyone doing a 270 should have the skills, expereince, and judgement to be able to go either way. I jump at an Otter DZ (not many DZ's flying anything bigger than an Otter), and once open, and clear, I begin to count canopies in order to account for the other jumpers in the air. Then I sit in brakes, and wait for the moderately loaded canopies (with moderately skilled pilots) to land first, making my only traffic the slower student canopies, and tandems (both of which are slow enough to easily avoid). This gives me some additional freedom in choosing my swoop. If you are not willing to flollow a similar plan, you have to be ready to forefit your swoop if traffic problems occur. If you are skilled enough to swoop, you need to be skilled enough to avoid those who aren't.

[jdhill 0]

My preference is to do a left 270, because it allows me to see all the other canopies in the pattern and chose my route to avoid them, or abort my turn if the pattern is too congested (because that is my responsibility)... yes potentially put you head on with others on their base legs, but should they be on a base leg at 700-1000'? Not how I leard to fly a standard pattern.

The key is to fly a predictable pattern... the majority of swoopers at my home DZ fly very predictable set ups for their landings, and those that do not are encouraged by to do so by those of us that do...

I have advocated setting up separate landing areas for HP and LP landings, and a one way or the other landing direction in the MLA, but neither was respected (typically by those performing LP landings).

J

All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. - Edmund Burke

[Brains 2]

I can see this both ways. If you do a rt. 270, you can fly the same patter as other jumpers up until your final. Thus not creating any confusion from others of you flying towards them up until you make your final turn. Of course if you get jammed in the corner and have to bail, then you are flying perp. (assuming a 180 then bail) to the common landing direction. Maybe talking with others on load before hand and ironing out the details would help and also having separate landing areas for novice and hp canopy pilots? Of course, hook turn are not allowed at our dz and NOBODY EVER does them

Never look down on someone, unless they are going down on you.

[jdhill 0]

  Quote

The setup for the left 270 involves flying against the flow of traffic on the downwind leg just before your swoop.

A left 270 is nothing but a normal left hand pattern with greatly abriviated downwind and base legs... you are just entering the pattern a a different point than others...

The problem I see with a right 270 is that you cannot see the traffic that is behind and bellow you in the pattern... that you will trun directly in to... a left 270 allows you to see them and they to see you (with the exception of someone else doing a L270)

J

All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. - Edmund Burke

[skygod7777 0]

i've heard this same thing before.

i personally think that if you look around before you do you hook, it doesn't really matter which way you go (left or right). you shouldn't be conflicting traffic to do you turn. because in either turn, you still are coming across traffic on thier downwind leg.

if the traffic is too much, maybe only do a 90, or a 180, or land straight in. or if you see a bunch of traffic, go to a different area to land, maybe have a little further walk, and not have to worry about other people, and still have a bad ass swoop, instead of haveing to do less of a hook, or cut someone off.

i'm not bashing you phree at all, in fact i'm sure you already do this. this is just my opinion, and since opinion's are like assholes.........everyone's got em, and they all stink

later

[SkymonkeyONE 4]

I always plan on a right 270, but will bail to a left 90 in a heartbeat if traffic sneaks up on me or it's just too congested. Never sacrifice the safety of others for your ten seconds of glory (or faceplant). I don't have any problem seeing all those in the pattern below me when I am setting up for a R270. I throw my turn MUCH higher than the majority of people at my home dropzone (who jump ST's and SA's). You really need to think in 3 dimensions when you are planning your diving turn.

Chuck