rgoper 0 #51 October 4, 2003 QuoteI think that Atair have sold a lot more than 20 canopies... yeah, to the military. thats their bread and butter. as an aside, why is their nothing in your profile? why no name? who are you? what & where do you sky dive? what you have heard here are actual events and opinions of experienced sky divers with profiles and names, the whole 9 yards. ANDREWSTEWART Full Profile posting anonamously, shame on you.--Richard-- "We Will Not Be Shaken By Thugs, And Terroist" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rgoper 0 #52 October 4, 2003 I just figured out who you are. all i had to do was go take a peek at your archived post and the topics you responded to 90% of the time. HAH! Busted! now, shall you reveal yourself, or shall i do it for you? --Richard-- "We Will Not Be Shaken By Thugs, And Terroist" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
andrewstewart 0 #53 October 4, 2003 QuoteI just figured out who you are. all i had to do was go take a peek at your archived post and the topics you responded to 90% of the time. HAH! Busted! now, shall you reveal yourself, or shall i do it for you? I think you're living in some weird conspiracy theory... Anyone can go back and see what previous posts people have made - it's not rocket science. If I was trying to hide my identity or if I was somehow ashamed of my previous posts (which I'm not) I would have changed my user name, which of course I haven't. - A Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
andrewstewart 0 #54 October 4, 2003 QuoteQuoteI think that Atair have sold a lot more than 20 canopies... yeah, to the military. thats their bread and butter. as an aside, why is their nothing in your profile? why no name? who are you? what & where do you sky dive? what you have heard here are actual events and opinions of experienced sky divers with profiles and names, the whole 9 yards. ANDREWSTEWART Full Profile posting anonamously, shame on you. Well... they obviously sell a fair few sport canopies because YOU bought one, right? I don't know why my profile doesn't work, I think the problem with that is with the forum, not me; it was certainly not intentional. Just because the people posting here are "real skydivers" (whatever that means) doesn't invalidate my opinion. I posted that my Cobalt demo arrived promptly - it did. I posted that my Cobalt demo was on risers - it was. I posted that I like how it flies - I do. I reiterate that my experiences with Atair have been entirely positive. - A Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hooknswoop 19 #55 October 4, 2003 Let's keep this thread on-topic. Last warning. Derek Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #56 October 5, 2003 QuoteThe people "complaining" seem to be far more vocal than what has to be a silent majority of people who are perfectly happy with their Cobalt. Maybe. However, how many people that jump or have jumped PDs have come out and said the same sort of things about PDs. Now what about PISA canopies, Precision canopies, Icuras canopies, etc. Why does it seem that predominately it is the folks that have jumped Cobalts posting about a negative experience (sometimes a VERY negative experience)? If you ask people, you'll always find someone that had a bad experience with a product, it just seems rare that so many people have such a very vocally bad experience with a single company/product in skydiving.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
VectorBoy 0 #57 October 5, 2003 Quote. Think of the reaction if PD started marketing Stiletto 170's to new jumpers just off student status. Can you imagine going form a 230 whatever to a Stiletto 170. How many of those people would have a problem? Sure some would be ok but how many would get hurt or even killed? PD is to smart for that. I hope Atair figures it out. Roger Nelson put AFF students on hornets, sabre 2 s and the occasional Stilleto depending on their weight and wing loading. And he got them from PD. And I think PD knew what he was going to do with them. There is no 230 to be downsizing from. Not 300# jumpers, 100# jumpers, 80, 50 or 20# jumpers just plain old 0- thru- 19 number jumpers. Stilletos and hornets are in the same class as an alpha or space or is it the viper ( the old one not the new german one). Maybe the cobalt, maybe dunknow its all a blurr. Roger Nelson: innovator, visionary or madman? Film @ 11. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
VectorBoy 0 #58 October 5, 2003 Why does it seem that predominately it is the folks that have jumped Cobalts posting about a negative experience (sometimes a VERY negative experience)?Quote Well dave I remember folks that were not happy with icarus and the 2 collapses that turned into a ton of people (then) unhappy about customer service, mods, replacement lines, demos.... etc. And the fear that theirs too will collapse on them. And how the X-fire 2 is a quick cover up to the problems with the 1, Remember? I run into a bunch of people that really love their x-fires 1 and 2. I don't hear too much complaining now. These folks do a lot of jumps a year. I know a bunch of people that don't like cobalts. They don't like Dans marketing, don't like waiting weeks for replacement lines, hated the demo packaging. Don't like the non standard PC recommendation. All of the hoopla about the two stage opening. Yada yada yada. One sweet individual ( who never flew one ) hated the fact that they are made in an eastern european country. This person has wingsuit that is made down the street from atair but.... in the same region of the world that is making all if not most of the high tech sailplane stuff, one country over from the guys that are welding up the fuel tanks for some of our rocket ships. What in the hell does this have to do with sewing up a damn parachute? And how can you have an opinion about something you haven't test flown? Funny thing is not one person I talked to thinks the cobalt totally sucks. Some don't care for the opening, some don't care for the flare. Most like or love the way it flys. Some people love everything about theirs. When you want to know about some gear ask the guys that are putting 1000 or more jumps a year on that little piece of equiptment. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rgoper 0 #59 October 5, 2003 QuoteWhen you want to know about some gear ask the guys that are putting 1000 or more jumps a year on that little piece of equiptment. i don't believe AggieDave would make an uninformed statement. i know for a fact he's done his homework on this product.--Richard-- "We Will Not Be Shaken By Thugs, And Terroist" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites trigger 0 #60 October 5, 2003 It's funny how fickle skydivers can be when it comes to the equipment the're using! Not that long ago,some of the people posting here[on this thread] were recommending that i demo a cobalt,because at the time in there opinion it was the best thing since sliced bread,now suddenly in there opinion it's became a piece of sh*!. Didn't they take there own advice or do they go around wearing 'rose' tinted spectacles.I dunno.CHOP WOOD COLLECT WATER. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites AggieDave 6 #61 October 5, 2003 QuoteFunny thing is not one person I talked to thinks the cobalt totally sucks If you've read my past posts, you would know that I enjoyed how the Cobalt flew. Its just that the demo I had opened so hard that I damn near knocked me out. After a 20 minute phone conversation with Dan Preston (where everything was my fault) he recommended to me to 1) dump in a track and 2) double stow each stow while using small rubber bands. Double stowing small rubber bands is asking for a bag lock (not just according to me, according to atleast a dozen other riggers I've told that to) so I didn't do that. I dump in a track, though. That was my last jump on that demo and my last jump of the weekend. It was the last jump of the weekend do to how hard the canopy opened. About 8 months after my experience on that demo, he grounded the demo 170s and said he was redesigning them since they opened hard (atleast that's what he posted on this site). My demo didn't come on risers and didn't even come from Atair. Atair had the guy that was demoing it before me, UPS it directly to me. So who knows if it was functioning correctly, since it wasn't inspected between demos. QuoteWhen you want to know about some gear ask the guys that are putting 1000 or more jumps a year on that little piece of equiptment. I tend to take what people like that say with a grain of salt. Why? Usually their sponsered by that company. For instance, the Atair sponsered jumpers act nearly like a religous cult when it comes to the Cobalt. You say you had a bad experience with one and they attack. It even made it back to me that one of their jumpers was telling people that I was incredibly dangerous and that I'll have a student fatality within a month of getting my TM, after I had posted about the bad experience I had with Atair and a Cobalt. *shrug* Ok.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Hooknswoop 19 #62 October 5, 2003 QuoteRoger Nelson put AFF students on hornets, sabre 2 s and the occasional Stilleto depending on their weight and wing loading. And he got them from PD. And I think PD knew what he was going to do with them. There is no 230 to be downsizing from. Not 300# jumpers, 100# jumpers, 80, 50 or 20# jumpers just plain old 0- thru- 19 number jumpers. Roger Nelson/Skydive Chicago did not put Students on Stilettos, much less Stiletto 170's and smaller. I asked someone that works there and that is the answer I recieved. Only a select few of the very aware and fast-learning post-student-status jumpers jumped Stilettos. Derek Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites andrewstewart 0 #63 October 5, 2003 QuoteQuoteThe people "complaining" seem to be far more vocal than what has to be a silent majority of people who are perfectly happy with their Cobalt. Maybe. However, how many people that jump or have jumped PDs have come out and said the same sort of things about PDs. Now what about PISA canopies, Precision canopies, Icuras canopies, etc. Why does it seem that predominately it is the folks that have jumped Cobalts posting about a negative experience (sometimes a VERY negative experience)? If you ask people, you'll always find someone that had a bad experience with a product, it just seems rare that so many people have such a very vocally bad experience with a single company/product in skydiving. How about that long thread about Sabre2 openings in one of the other forums? How about all the hoo-ha about the Crossfire1? As far as I'm aware the Cobalt hasn't been the direct reason why someone was killed, whereas the Crossfire1 collapsed and killed at least one person (correct me if I'm wrong on this but that is my current understanding). - A Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites ianmdrennan 2 #64 October 5, 2003 QuoteStilletos and hornets I think you mean Heatwaves, not Hornets. Hornets are sabre'esque canopies, but the Heatwave is the elliptical PISA canopy. Just to avoid any confusion. Blue skies IanPerformance Designs Factory Team Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites bobsled92 0 #65 October 5, 2003 I agree. It's like that with a lot of life. No one comments/complains about Phone or Power until it's not there. All's well and no "at-a-boys!" Well, my Comp Cobalt 170 is Due in less than 4 weeks. I will give honest statments of how it goes for me, with an open mind readied._______________________________ If I could be a Super Hero, I chose to be: "GRANT-A-CLAUS". and work 365 days a Year. http://www.hangout.no/speednews/ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites AggieDave 6 #66 October 6, 2003 QuoteWell, my Comp Cobalt 170 is Due in less than 4 weeks. I will give honest statments of how it goes for me, with an open mind readied. Keep us informed on this, I'm really curious. Especially since Dan Preston redesigned the 170s (although the CC170 is a newer thing and obviously different then the regular 170). When you post your review, could you include your container, your PC size, you exit weight, how you pack it, etc?--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites diablopilot 2 #67 October 6, 2003 Quotewhereas the Crossfire1 collapsed and killed at least one person Not that I'm an Icarus suporter or anything, but the colapes of the canopy in New York was never atributed to the contruction or trim, but rather the turbulance often found at that location.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites andrewstewart 0 #68 October 6, 2003 QuoteQuotewhereas the Crossfire1 collapsed and killed at least one person Not that I'm an Icarus suporter or anything, but the colapes of the canopy in New York was never atributed to the contruction or trim, but rather the turbulance often found at that location. In that case, apologies if my understanding was incorrect. What was the reason for the redesign then, as my understanding was the possible collapse was one of the justifying factors. Thanks, - Andrew Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites VectorBoy 0 #69 October 6, 2003 QuoteQuoteWhen you want to know about some gear ask the guys that are putting 1000 or more jumps a year on that little piece of equiptment. i don't believe AggieDave would make an uninformed statement. i know for a fact he's done his homework on this product. I don't blame Aggie Dave for his reponse or his observation AND if I would have had the experience that he had with attair and the cobalt I would have run the other way with my money. He has a very personal reason not to like the product and a very valid one. My complaint or rather my observation is that there is indeed a great many people that bash attair and its not always cobalt related sometimes they have never flown the canopy . They are only relaying second or third hand info most of the time. Before I bought the Cobalts I jumped six different canopys in three different sizes, although I was hooked on the first jump. And when I say ask a person who puts 1000 jumps a year on a piece of equiptment I never approached a factory pilot about it. Just a working person who makes a ton of jumps and has many canopys to choose from. I also asked the persons with ten times my experience, who were also at that time demo ing the cobalt, and picked their brains about what they thought. Trust me I did my homework too. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites VectorBoy 0 #70 October 6, 2003 Roger Nelson/Skydive Chicago did not put Students on Stilettos, much less Stiletto 170's and smaller. I asked someone that works there and that is the answer I recieved. Only a select few of the very aware and fast-learning post-student-status jumpers jumped Stilettos. Derek Before everyone gets lathered up I would have to say that the way the SDC program works ( as it was described to me ) is its not just seven but more like 17-19 jumps. Its both canopy and body flight intensive with more skill requirements. Kind of like the "MORE TRAINING" that everyone is saying we should have throughout all USPA training facilities. The MORE canopy training that will help jumpers alive past 100 jumps. And get them ready for the gear they will be purchasing after completion of the coarse not gear that does not exist outside of standard AFF programs. And I met a person that claims to have jumped a stilletto in this program not post. Not everyone does but for whatever reason but they did. Its possible that the situation that required this person to jump the stilleto has been eliminated let say more sabre 2s in more size in better containers than a few years ago but I'm going to go with their word on this one Derek. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rgoper 0 #59 October 5, 2003 QuoteWhen you want to know about some gear ask the guys that are putting 1000 or more jumps a year on that little piece of equiptment. i don't believe AggieDave would make an uninformed statement. i know for a fact he's done his homework on this product.--Richard-- "We Will Not Be Shaken By Thugs, And Terroist" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
trigger 0 #60 October 5, 2003 It's funny how fickle skydivers can be when it comes to the equipment the're using! Not that long ago,some of the people posting here[on this thread] were recommending that i demo a cobalt,because at the time in there opinion it was the best thing since sliced bread,now suddenly in there opinion it's became a piece of sh*!. Didn't they take there own advice or do they go around wearing 'rose' tinted spectacles.I dunno.CHOP WOOD COLLECT WATER. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #61 October 5, 2003 QuoteFunny thing is not one person I talked to thinks the cobalt totally sucks If you've read my past posts, you would know that I enjoyed how the Cobalt flew. Its just that the demo I had opened so hard that I damn near knocked me out. After a 20 minute phone conversation with Dan Preston (where everything was my fault) he recommended to me to 1) dump in a track and 2) double stow each stow while using small rubber bands. Double stowing small rubber bands is asking for a bag lock (not just according to me, according to atleast a dozen other riggers I've told that to) so I didn't do that. I dump in a track, though. That was my last jump on that demo and my last jump of the weekend. It was the last jump of the weekend do to how hard the canopy opened. About 8 months after my experience on that demo, he grounded the demo 170s and said he was redesigning them since they opened hard (atleast that's what he posted on this site). My demo didn't come on risers and didn't even come from Atair. Atair had the guy that was demoing it before me, UPS it directly to me. So who knows if it was functioning correctly, since it wasn't inspected between demos. QuoteWhen you want to know about some gear ask the guys that are putting 1000 or more jumps a year on that little piece of equiptment. I tend to take what people like that say with a grain of salt. Why? Usually their sponsered by that company. For instance, the Atair sponsered jumpers act nearly like a religous cult when it comes to the Cobalt. You say you had a bad experience with one and they attack. It even made it back to me that one of their jumpers was telling people that I was incredibly dangerous and that I'll have a student fatality within a month of getting my TM, after I had posted about the bad experience I had with Atair and a Cobalt. *shrug* Ok.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hooknswoop 19 #62 October 5, 2003 QuoteRoger Nelson put AFF students on hornets, sabre 2 s and the occasional Stilleto depending on their weight and wing loading. And he got them from PD. And I think PD knew what he was going to do with them. There is no 230 to be downsizing from. Not 300# jumpers, 100# jumpers, 80, 50 or 20# jumpers just plain old 0- thru- 19 number jumpers. Roger Nelson/Skydive Chicago did not put Students on Stilettos, much less Stiletto 170's and smaller. I asked someone that works there and that is the answer I recieved. Only a select few of the very aware and fast-learning post-student-status jumpers jumped Stilettos. Derek Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
andrewstewart 0 #63 October 5, 2003 QuoteQuoteThe people "complaining" seem to be far more vocal than what has to be a silent majority of people who are perfectly happy with their Cobalt. Maybe. However, how many people that jump or have jumped PDs have come out and said the same sort of things about PDs. Now what about PISA canopies, Precision canopies, Icuras canopies, etc. Why does it seem that predominately it is the folks that have jumped Cobalts posting about a negative experience (sometimes a VERY negative experience)? If you ask people, you'll always find someone that had a bad experience with a product, it just seems rare that so many people have such a very vocally bad experience with a single company/product in skydiving. How about that long thread about Sabre2 openings in one of the other forums? How about all the hoo-ha about the Crossfire1? As far as I'm aware the Cobalt hasn't been the direct reason why someone was killed, whereas the Crossfire1 collapsed and killed at least one person (correct me if I'm wrong on this but that is my current understanding). - A Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ianmdrennan 2 #64 October 5, 2003 QuoteStilletos and hornets I think you mean Heatwaves, not Hornets. Hornets are sabre'esque canopies, but the Heatwave is the elliptical PISA canopy. Just to avoid any confusion. Blue skies IanPerformance Designs Factory Team Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bobsled92 0 #65 October 5, 2003 I agree. It's like that with a lot of life. No one comments/complains about Phone or Power until it's not there. All's well and no "at-a-boys!" Well, my Comp Cobalt 170 is Due in less than 4 weeks. I will give honest statments of how it goes for me, with an open mind readied._______________________________ If I could be a Super Hero, I chose to be: "GRANT-A-CLAUS". and work 365 days a Year. http://www.hangout.no/speednews/ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #66 October 6, 2003 QuoteWell, my Comp Cobalt 170 is Due in less than 4 weeks. I will give honest statments of how it goes for me, with an open mind readied. Keep us informed on this, I'm really curious. Especially since Dan Preston redesigned the 170s (although the CC170 is a newer thing and obviously different then the regular 170). When you post your review, could you include your container, your PC size, you exit weight, how you pack it, etc?--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #67 October 6, 2003 Quotewhereas the Crossfire1 collapsed and killed at least one person Not that I'm an Icarus suporter or anything, but the colapes of the canopy in New York was never atributed to the contruction or trim, but rather the turbulance often found at that location.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
andrewstewart 0 #68 October 6, 2003 QuoteQuotewhereas the Crossfire1 collapsed and killed at least one person Not that I'm an Icarus suporter or anything, but the colapes of the canopy in New York was never atributed to the contruction or trim, but rather the turbulance often found at that location. In that case, apologies if my understanding was incorrect. What was the reason for the redesign then, as my understanding was the possible collapse was one of the justifying factors. Thanks, - Andrew Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
VectorBoy 0 #69 October 6, 2003 QuoteQuoteWhen you want to know about some gear ask the guys that are putting 1000 or more jumps a year on that little piece of equiptment. i don't believe AggieDave would make an uninformed statement. i know for a fact he's done his homework on this product. I don't blame Aggie Dave for his reponse or his observation AND if I would have had the experience that he had with attair and the cobalt I would have run the other way with my money. He has a very personal reason not to like the product and a very valid one. My complaint or rather my observation is that there is indeed a great many people that bash attair and its not always cobalt related sometimes they have never flown the canopy . They are only relaying second or third hand info most of the time. Before I bought the Cobalts I jumped six different canopys in three different sizes, although I was hooked on the first jump. And when I say ask a person who puts 1000 jumps a year on a piece of equiptment I never approached a factory pilot about it. Just a working person who makes a ton of jumps and has many canopys to choose from. I also asked the persons with ten times my experience, who were also at that time demo ing the cobalt, and picked their brains about what they thought. Trust me I did my homework too. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
VectorBoy 0 #70 October 6, 2003 Roger Nelson/Skydive Chicago did not put Students on Stilettos, much less Stiletto 170's and smaller. I asked someone that works there and that is the answer I recieved. Only a select few of the very aware and fast-learning post-student-status jumpers jumped Stilettos. Derek Before everyone gets lathered up I would have to say that the way the SDC program works ( as it was described to me ) is its not just seven but more like 17-19 jumps. Its both canopy and body flight intensive with more skill requirements. Kind of like the "MORE TRAINING" that everyone is saying we should have throughout all USPA training facilities. The MORE canopy training that will help jumpers alive past 100 jumps. And get them ready for the gear they will be purchasing after completion of the coarse not gear that does not exist outside of standard AFF programs. And I met a person that claims to have jumped a stilletto in this program not post. Not everyone does but for whatever reason but they did. Its possible that the situation that required this person to jump the stilleto has been eliminated let say more sabre 2s in more size in better containers than a few years ago but I'm going to go with their word on this one Derek. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diverdriver 7 #71 October 6, 2003 You are correct. It's just the way you first posted it sounded like everyone was on Stilletos by the end of the program which can't be further from the truth. I do know some real lightweights were put on Stilletos because we wanted a smaller canopy than the 150 for them. But again, it's certainly not the norm. Far from it. And for the record we never used Hornets. We used Safires in between the Sabre and Sabre2 era.Chris Schindler www.diverdriver.com ATP/D-19012 FB #4125 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
andrewstewart 0 #72 October 6, 2003 QuoteQuoteQuoteWhen you want to know about some gear ask the guys that are putting 1000 or more jumps a year on that little piece of equiptment. i don't believe AggieDave would make an uninformed statement. i know for a fact he's done his homework on this product. I don't blame Aggie Dave for his reponse or his observation AND if I would have had the experience that he had with attair and the cobalt I would have run the other way with my money. He has a very personal reason not to like the product and a very valid one. My complaint or rather my observation is that there is indeed a great many people that bash attair and its not always cobalt related sometimes they have never flown the canopy . They are only relaying second or third hand info most of the time. Before I bought the Cobalts I jumped six different canopys in three different sizes, although I was hooked on the first jump. And when I say ask a person who puts 1000 jumps a year on a piece of equiptment I never approached a factory pilot about it. Just a working person who makes a ton of jumps and has many canopys to choose from. I also asked the persons with ten times my experience, who were also at that time demo ing the cobalt, and picked their brains about what they thought. Trust me I did my homework too. I totally agree with you. I've talked to a person who used to be sponsored by Atair. He told me that even though he now jumps a VX the Competition Cobalt he had was (quote) "the nicest opening canopy I've ever owned". So there are very experienced jumpers who have good things to say about the Atair canopies, just as there are also people who don't like them - but que sera sera... - A Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bobsled92 0 #73 October 6, 2003 QuoteQuoteWell, my Comp Cobalt 170 is Due in less than 4 weeks. I will give honest statments of how it goes for me, with an open mind readied. Keep us informed on this, I'm really curious. Especially since Dan Preston redesigned the 170s (although the CC170 is a newer thing and obviously different then the regular 170). When you post your review, could you include your container, your PC size, you exit weight, how you pack it, etc? No problem. I will get several jumps on it before stating anything. Complete info. will be provided from gear, right down to air temp & surface wind speed_______________________________ If I could be a Super Hero, I chose to be: "GRANT-A-CLAUS". and work 365 days a Year. http://www.hangout.no/speednews/ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #74 October 6, 2003 If you as Icarus, the Crossfire 1 line trim mod was due to tolerance deviations in production of *some* canopies. Talking with one of the original test pilots for NZ Aerosports (the company that produces the designs for Icarus) I was told that the Crossfire 1 design had been plagued by the "partial collapse" problem from day one. The Crossfire 2 is a significant change, and IMO has reduces performance from the original Crossfire. My conclusion is the Crossfire 1 was rushed into production before all the "bugs" were worked out. Note that this is MY opinion. I'm sure Icarus will have a different story.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
andrewstewart 0 #75 October 6, 2003 QuoteIf you as Icarus, the Crossfire 1 line trim mod was due to tolerance deviations in production of *some* canopies. Talking with one of the original test pilots for NZ Aerosports (the company that produces the designs for Icarus) I was told that the Crossfire 1 design had been plagued by the "partial collapse" problem from day one. The Crossfire 2 is a significant change, and IMO has reduces performance from the original Crossfire. My conclusion is the Crossfire 1 was rushed into production before all the "bugs" were worked out. Note that this is MY opinion. I'm sure Icarus will have a different story. If that is the case then I think it disproves the theory that we never see complaints or problems with other manufacturers or their canopies. I think a lot of this discussion has it's roots in the fact that we're trying to objectify our individual subjective outlooks, i.e. our particular individual preferences. It would be a blanket statement to say that a certain manufacturer is totally immune from ever creating a product that is infallable or that everyone is guaranteed to like - it's just not possible. There are people out there who dislike Atair canopies just as there are people who have similar feelings about Icarus or whoever, and that is ultimately to be expected. I do feel that it is unfair when I see people bashing Atair over and over again without acknowledging that there are people who feel the same way about other manufacturers. - A Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
