GeeeeeeFly 0 #1 September 22, 2003 I need a little input from those who have flown Crossfire's... I have been improving my swooping and have found that crossfire's are incredible in every aspect of the swoop, but since I am very much still learning there is much room for improvement. I have found that as I am coming in from a beautiful 180, my view goes from seeing horizon to straight up nothing but ground. Which is good since I am seeing the response from my front riser input, as the canopy levels out I have this awesome amount of speed that is acquired from the hook turn as the canopy begins to level out. So as the canopy is leveling out the descent is too quick and ends the ride sooner than expected. I am wondering should I transition to rear risers and give a little input to help the canopy level out so to increase the length of the swoop? I know this is used for crossbrace canopies, can I use it for my Crossfire to get the same results? Geefly... "The edge ... there is no honest way to explain it because the only people who know where it is are those that have gone over" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
johnny1488 1 #2 September 22, 2003 I started with my xfire about 150 jumps ago, or so so take it for what its worth. The swoops that I have thought my entry into my lane was 10 feet too high have been the longest ones yet. They arent as fast as the ones that I level off right at ground level, but those ones end sooner with more speed left for what should be more swoop. I have found that the second or 2 of full flight before the initial input makes the swoop go much further, whether toggles or rear risers. They more input I give, the more it kills the swoop. When I can get on line with my target and let the canopy plane out high enough to let the recovery arc drop me 10 feet, all I have to do is "be there" and its the best possible swoop I can get (i think ) If I were you, I would make sure you are taking advantage of the xfire's nice, long recovery arc and let it transfer the power of your turn to your kick ass swoop. Good luck and be safe! Johnny --"This ain't no book club, we're all gonna die!" Mike Rome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
andy2 0 #3 September 23, 2003 this is why you see canopy pilots with cross braced canopies easing so gently out of their carve into the plane out? say, a stiletto pilot has to bring it down closer due to the short recovery arc? am I clear? Just trying to understand. --------------------------------------------- let my inspiration flow, in token rhyme suggesting rhythm... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
johnny1488 1 #4 September 23, 2003 I've never jumped a stilleto, but the short recovery arc is why I went to the xfire from my safire. I have a broader range of altitude control with the xfire. I also feel I can keep it in the dive longer but that might just be I have more expierence now. Johnny --"This ain't no book club, we're all gonna die!" Mike Rome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeflydrew 0 #5 September 23, 2003 It all depends on the pilot, the canopy size, and the wing loading... Relative to a cross braced canopy, a stiletto does begin closer to the ground, but that's just a relative thing... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeflycracker 0 #6 September 23, 2003 IMO. It sounds like maybe you should come out of the dive a little higher. Possibly start higher. If you are "digging" out of the corner with toggles youre killing a lot of your speed. But if you dig out of the corner with risers too much at that same height you might kill alot more than speed! Wingloading about 1.6 Im starting a 270 at around 600 feet and am working on raising it more even. The last 30 jumps have been on rear risers- very little input should be needed I dont look directly down at the ground much. Picture yourself in a car(bare with me here!) If I want to know how fast Im going FORWARD Id open the door and look straight down. If I want to judge how fast Im coming down vertically under canopy I look at the horizon. I just made some major improvements after a good weekend of coaching from Brian Germain. Take advantage of being in CA. and get some input from a qualified (read: not me) pilot Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeflyswc 0 #7 September 23, 2003 I have about 800 jumps on my crossfire loaded @ 1.9 . Rear risers will give you a cosiderable amount more speed on landing . There are a few things to keep in mind when using rear risers. you can not dig out of the corner on rears as well as toggles. With rears , you can high speed stall the canopy (not good) once you figure out the sweet spot on your canopy (planes out w/ little or no input) start experimenting w/ rears and it will add speed and distance to your swoop. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GeeeeeeFly 0 #8 September 23, 2003 Thanks Everybody... I am not in the situation where I have to save my ass. Done that before on a larger canopy. I am wingloading 1.7:1. I use bothe front risers when I begin the turn thus giving more of an angle of attack and also controling altitude loss while increasing the speed. The xfire is an incredible design that allows you to do easily. But at the plane out the canopy isn't exactly completely level and begins to descend instead of flying straight on it seems. This may be an illusion though. That is why I am posting this. So i will try this input with the rear riser to see if it will bring up the nose errr down the tail in order to elongate the swoop.... Thanks for the advice... Guy....fly "The edge ... there is no honest way to explain it because the only people who know where it is are those that have gone over" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RichM 0 #9 September 25, 2003 All canopies will return to their natural glide path after a swoop. My xfire does this without any natural inbuilt plane out, so it requires gentle input from toggles or rear risers. But this is just gentle input to find the "sweet" spot where the canopy can be held while surfing long distances. Rear risers deflect more of the canopy so requiring much less input and therefore creating less drag - aka they are better for swoop distance but they are also more risky - a canopy will stall much quicker and more easily on rear risers than toggles. You also need to concentrate on the transition point from rears to toggles as you move from the surf to the shutdown phase. I may be wrong but it sounds to me like you are not finding the sweet spot in the surf and are just transitioning straight to shutdown at the bottom of the recovery arc. You should be able to surf your canopy well in excess of 100ft with just a little inout from the toggles.Rich M Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
