fundgh 0 #1 September 2, 2003 As I am progressing with my canopy control techniques, I have been using a double front riser approach. I am enjoying the added speed, but it seems to bleed off before I get to the ground. At this point I am releasing the fronts at 30 ft or so. I am slowly bringing the release altitude down closer to the ground. What is the most effective altitude to release the front risers and transition to flare?...FUN FOR ALL! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Samurai136 0 #2 September 2, 2003 It depends on the canopy and the amount of wind. Don't take it too low otherwise you'll have to dig deeper to pitch the canopy into level flight. Think about releasing the front risers gradually for a smooth transition to toggles and letting the canopy fly. Ken"Buttons aren't toys." - Trillian Ken Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhino 0 #3 September 2, 2003 Letting off your double fronts shouldn't just be a BAM.. I let go.. You should gradually let up the closer to the ground you get. It is a slow, smooth process.. I am referencing the simple, double front approach with no hook or carve. Rhino Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fundgh 0 #4 September 2, 2003 That is what I was understanding to be the method. At this point I am getting a feel for it, and I notice that the canopy goes from the steep approach to planing out a bit after letting up on the fronts. Am I correct in thinking that ultimately that transition will smoothly flow into the flare? At this point the canopy planes out a little after the front risers are released then I return to normal flight with a a tad bit more speed....FUN FOR ALL! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ianmdrennan 2 #5 September 2, 2003 Rhino is correct. Something else to check though is the length of your brake lines. Often they are too short and can signifcantly reduce your speed and the stability (when front risering) of the canopy. Test them out by (above 2000 feet and in clear airspace) pulling down one riser as far as you can (toggle still in hand, obviously) and checking that there is no tail deflection. Normally you can feel this by the canopy "bucking". Just something else to check. Blue skies IanPerformance Designs Factory Team Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fundgh 0 #6 September 2, 2003 I had this problem, and it was easily solved by lengthening the brake lines. The canopy flies 100% better now....FUN FOR ALL! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tictoc 0 #7 September 2, 2003 QuoteTest them out by (above 2000 feet and in clear airspace) pulling down one riser as far as you can (toggle still in hand, obviously) and checking that there is no tail deflection. If you pull your front riser as far as you can (lets say 4"-6") I would hope you would have some tail deflection. You should have about 2" of slack in your break lines (on average). this means you should be able to pull down on your break lines about 2" before your tail starts to deflect. If you are able to pull down 6" your breaks are to long and you will not have much of a flare at all.-------------------------------------------------------- Some one must go to the edge for others to be able to find it. But if you go be sure you can make it back. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
marks 0 #8 September 3, 2003 QuoteQuoteTest them out by (above 2000 feet and in clear airspace) pulling down one riser as far as you can (toggle still in hand, obviously) and checking that there is no tail deflection. If you pull your front riser as far as you can (lets say 4"-6") I would hope you would have some tail deflection. You should have about 2" of slack in your break lines (on average). this means you should be able to pull down on your break lines about 2" before your tail starts to deflect. If you are able to pull down 6" your breaks are to long and you will not have much of a flare at all. this is not tru for all canopies...... all canopies are different.... but may be true for some Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ianmdrennan 2 #9 September 3, 2003 I have not been able to pull my risers down enough to give me tail deflection and buckling. My lines tighten up but do not deflect the tail. Now if you're able to pull your risers down to your knees then kudo's but that doesn't pass the reasonable test. Blue skies IanPerformance Designs Factory Team Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hooknswoop 19 #10 September 3, 2003 QuoteIf you pull your front riser as far as you can (lets say 4"-6") I would hope you would have some tail deflection. You should have about 2" of slack in your break lines (on average). this means you should be able to pull down on your break lines about 2" before your tail starts to deflect. If you are able to pull down 6" your breaks are to long and you will not have much of a flare at all. I disagree. The steering lines should have enough slack to allow the pilot to pull down on the front risers w/o pulling down the tail. if you are pulling down the tail with the front risers, you are increasing the front riser pressure, shortening the recovery arc , and slowing the canopy (brakes). Of course the pilot needs to be able to flare still. If the risers are too short or the pilot's arms too short, then this may be an issue, but that is rare. Even if full flare is at your waist, it is still full flare and any more is un-necessary. Derek Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkymonkeyONE 4 #11 September 3, 2003 Exactly. If your canopy has a short usable control range, then moving that short distance down a bit is not going to cause you to not be able to fully flare or "shut down" your canopy. If anything, it brings the stall point down lower on your body and prevents unintentional "bowtieing" at the end of a flare. I have never found that letting the brakes out, on a parachute that needed it to stop it from bucking in front risers, prevented me from being able to fly and land it. Chuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fundgh 0 #12 September 3, 2003 Thanks Chuck, that is what I did. The Big top was bucking, so I let the lines out a tad, now she flies like a beauty! I do have a deeper control range, but I think that it was too short before anyway....FUN FOR ALL! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tictoc 0 #13 September 3, 2003 Wel let me say I am no pro by any means but I use the entire range of my flare espsaley the low end. I have yet to see a conopy with 6" to 1' of slack in the break lines. Not to say that it does not exist. I also dont know how far others pull down on their risers but for me the distance between my dive loop and just above my sholder is around 8'-10' and that is about how far I will pull down if I'm using risers insted of harness. with that said I don't deleave anyon would have much flare with letting out 6" of line unless they were on a steleto. And just remember just because you can't see your tail deflect does not mean that it isn't a litel bit. But this is just my opinion.-------------------------------------------------------- Some one must go to the edge for others to be able to find it. But if you go be sure you can make it back. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DrewEckhardt 0 #14 September 3, 2003 QuoteWhat is the most effective altitude to release the front risers and transition to flare? The one which requires the least toggle input to plane out. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hooknswoop 19 #15 September 3, 2003 On my VX, I set the toggles at 3" below the factory mark for the first jump. then lowered them another 3.5", which is where they are now. They have a ton of slack in them so that at top speed in a dive on the double fronts, the tail isn't pulled down. Derek Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
