tattoojeff 0 #1 June 10, 2003 any thoughts on my theory that a stilletto 135 would be safer than my saber 135. reason being faster recovery arch, and ability to plane out faster if i find myself low. i down sized 60 jumps ago from a saber 150 to a saber 135 with a loading of 1:4. my 180's have been safe on my new canopy. am i ready for eliptical? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zenister 0 #2 June 10, 2003 'faster' recovery arc on a stilletto?____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #3 June 10, 2003 (note: I only have 515 jumps and am no means any sort of expert). I'm sorry, but I think your reasoning is a bit off there. That's like saying a Corvette is great for a 16yr old, since he could get out of the way of wrecks quicker. There is a list of 6 items by BillVon that you should consider before going up another step in performance (its technically a list for downsizing, but applies here too). As well as consult with some experienced jumpers around you, that know how you fly. I downsized and went high performance relatively quickly and with relatively low jump numbers, but this was spending time with canopy coaches and talking to my S&TA for a long while about it. So your individual milage may vary (you may be fine, but this isn't a good place to get advice on if you should downsize or upgrade performance). In the end, if you're having to ask here, do you really think you're ready?--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cajun 0 #4 June 10, 2003 Quoteany thoughts on my theory that a stilletto 135 would be safer than my saber 135. reason being faster recovery arch, and ability to plane out faster if i find myself low. i down sized 60 jumps ago from a saber 150 to a saber 135 with a loading of 1:4. my 180's have been safe on my new canopy. am i ready for eliptical? My thoughts. Nope, a stiletto is not safer than a sabre. The recover arc on a sabre (assuming we're talking sabre1 here) is very fast! Only get a stiletto if you are looking for more performance. Edit: Try the stiletto, see if you are ready. I've never seen you land, so I can't tell you if you are ready. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeflydrew 0 #5 June 10, 2003 I would base whether or not you're ready for a stiletto by more than whether your 180's on a sabre are safe... Stiletto are very consistent on openings, where as the sabre (original) can at times open a little quicker than one might want, and the stiletto also turns much quicker than the sabre. The stiletto is much more responsive to body position and leg movement during deployement. The sabre, I believe, has a steeper glide angle, and quicker recovery arc. If you do switch to the stiletto, learn to fly it without diving it. You'll most likely find that it's pretty similiar to the sabre, until you pull on the risers... then you'll notice the difference. PD posts a great comparision between the two... You should check it out. Do Hop and pops! They are a really safe way of familiarizing yourself with a new canopy. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeflydrew 0 #6 June 10, 2003 http://www.performancedesigns.com/docs/stiletto.pdf Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
andy2 0 #7 June 10, 2003 [QUOTE]Stiletto are very consistent on openings, where as the sabre (original) can at times open a little quicker than one might want[/QUOTE] I thought a stiletto being fully elliptical would be significantly more difficult for an inexperienced person to control on opening, i.e. bad body position = chopping due to line twists. Isn't the sabre a bit more forgiving on openings, thus more consistent, the opposite of what you said? --------------------------------------------- let my inspiration flow, in token rhyme suggesting rhythm... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kris 0 #8 June 10, 2003 QuoteI thought a stiletto being fully elliptical would be significantly more difficult for an inexperienced person to control on opening, i.e. bad body position = chopping due to line twists. Isn't the sabre a bit more forgiving on openings, thus more consistent, the opposite of what you said? By consistent, I believe he means that it is a soft, snivelly opening. The original Sabre had a well-earned reputation for being a canopy that could open violently. My old Sabre left me stuck in bed for two days with a wrenched back after a bad opening. Another jumper on here was life-flighted out a couple of weekends ago after a Sabre opening. You either get one that opens decently or you get a canopy that makes you flinch as you reach for the hacky. My Stiletto is a much nicer canopy in that regard. No matter what I do it is a nice, soft, on-heading opening. No rolling the nose, no worrying about how tight to keep the tail. I just stuff it in the bag and go. It is true that a Sabre is more forgiving of bad body position on opening though.Sky, Muff Bro, Rodriguez Bro, and Bastion of Purity and Innocence!™ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NeedToJump 0 #9 June 10, 2003 The canopy itself is much more consistent on openings. It is, however, much more sensitive to body position as well and very unforgiving of an unstable deployment. If you were to deploy both canopies 100 times from a stable body position the Stiletto would open much more consistently than the Sabre. I jump a Stiletto 135 and hate jumping Sabre's because I never know what to expect from the openings whereas I always have nice soft openings from my Stiletto.Wind Tunnel and Skydiving Coach http://www.ariperelman.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeflydrew 0 #10 June 10, 2003 Quote[QUOTE]Stiletto are very consistent on openings, where as the sabre (original) can at times open a little quicker than one might want[/QUOTE] I thought a stiletto being fully elliptical would be significantly more difficult for an inexperienced person to control on opening, i.e. bad body position = chopping due to line twists. Isn't the sabre a bit more forgiving on openings, thus more consistent, the opposite of what you said? An inexperienced person should NOT be jumping a Stiletto... plain and simple. If your body position is off, and you deploy the Sabre, chances are you will be slammed (original Sabre). If you deploy a Stiletto and your body position is off, I believe that you are less likely to get slammed, yet the possibility is definitely there. Either case will probably require you to take more control of the canopy throughout the deployment to ensure that it does not spin up. I've come to understand the term "less forgiving" to have more to do with the result of turning the canopy to land from an altitude that results in you being lower or higher than you would ideally want to be, and not having to do with opening characteristics. Obviously when you're low out of a turn, you may not have the room to pull out enough to avoid contacting the planet at a high speed. If you come out of a turn higher than you would like, you may be too far in front of your canopy to have a strong flair, and too low to allow for the canopy to regain flight (surge forward) and allow for a strong (normal) flair... This also happens when someone flairs to high, lets up the control lines, and pulls them down again and the canopy feels like it doesn't flair... Someone can get seriously injured from both coming out of a turn low, and coming out of a turn high. I believe that this is what the term Less forgiving really applies to. The article by John LeBlanc is very thorough in its discussion of the Stilleto / Sabre comparision... http://www.performancedesigns.com/docs/stiletto.pdf Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
andy2 0 #11 June 10, 2003 [QUOTE]Someone can get seriously injured from both coming out of a turn low, and coming out of a turn high[/QUOTE] Youre talking about high performance turns while landing? Wouldn't the proper procedure to coming out of a turn too high would be to go to double fronts? Turn too low, I thought that was the one that bites most people. Maybe Im misunderstanding what youre saying... --------------------------------------------- let my inspiration flow, in token rhyme suggesting rhythm... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeflydrew 0 #12 June 10, 2003 Quote[QUOTE]Someone can get seriously injured from both coming out of a turn low, and coming out of a turn high[/QUOTE] Youre talking about high performance turns while landing? Wouldn't the proper procedure to coming out of a turn too high would be to go to double fronts? Turn too low, I thought that was the one that bites most people. Maybe Im misunderstanding what youre saying... Sorry for the confusion! Just to make something very clear here: I'm talking about coming out of a dive between like 10 and 20 feet, and not 50 and 100 feet. From 100 feet or 50 feet you have a bunch of different options, including carving the canopy to lose altitude, giving a little of both risers to lose altitude (yikes!), and letting the canopy fly and not using the risers since you already tried to land with them once and this time it just didn't seem to work correctly. Either way, your canopy should have enough time to regain it's normal glide angle and offer you a full and responsive flair. "Less forgiving" applies when you come out of the arc at an altitude where there is not enough height for the canopy to move back infront of you into full flight, and in essence surges you towards the ground with very little response from the control lines. Know what I mean? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
