Viking 0 #1 April 8, 2003 I know i won't be going very far but i would still like to get as much out of my first canopy. (when i buy it! Come on summer job!!) Is it possible to get an effective understanding of hp landings with a lightly loaded main?I swear you must have footprints on the back of your helmet - chicagoskydiver My God has a bigger dick than your god -George Carlin Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DrewEckhardt 0 #2 April 8, 2003 QuoteIs it possible to get an effective understanding of hp landings with a lightly loaded main? Sure, although you won't be able to get much of a turn with a weight shift. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Viking 0 #3 April 8, 2003 what about front riser turns will they yield a good turn at that loading?I swear you must have footprints on the back of your helmet - chicagoskydiver My God has a bigger dick than your god -George Carlin Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TB99 0 #4 April 8, 2003 I'm only loading my Sabre2 at 1.15:1 and it's AWESOME! You can riser it all day long and get pretty decent swoops ... harness turns at such light loadings do work, but BARELY and you have to keep the input for a while before it initiates. Also, carving doesn't work too well with the light loading. You can learn a whole lot on that canopy tho ... max it out and you'll be surprised as to just how much you can get out of it! I'm no where near maxing mine out yet and am loving it to death! Trailer 11/12 was the best. Thanks for the memories ... you guys rocked! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #5 April 8, 2003 Hell yeah you can begin to get an understanding of HP landings with a 1:1 loading. No, you're not going to swoop 200 feet, but you'll be learning in a safer envrionment then at a higher wingloading. Arther, I think that a Sabre2 loaded at 1:1 would be a great canopy for you to start with!--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Viking 0 #6 April 8, 2003 Oh i understand i won't be swooping the cows with the Pros but i would still like to get a little bit of distance out of it! Dayv thanx man I swear you must have footprints on the back of your helmet - chicagoskydiver My God has a bigger dick than your god -George Carlin Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jethers203 0 #7 April 8, 2003 I agree with the Aggie. Learning fundamentals on a parachute with a 1:1 ratio is the safe thing to do. Especially since it is a Sabre 2. They are the shit. Very forgiving in every way. Remember, you can always sell the chute later or just put on some pounds to up the wingloading. John D-24352 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
b1jercat 0 #8 April 8, 2003 Hi Viking, cant give you much advice on wing loading. But I did jump my 190 saber2 for the first time yesterday. in one word Sweet. I load my canopy at 1.35 and my reserve is a pd 193r, my container is a Infinity with hip rings. I've jumped Infinity containers with/without hip rings and they fly different ( read freefall) I don't know/not sure how that will affect harness shift. need more jumps. What I can tell you is at factory toggle settings I was not able to stall the canopy. Pulled at 6 grand on one jump and did hard toggle turns, very crisp indeed. didn't do any front riser turns. Practice flying in brakes / turns had two standups with about 20 ft surf into 7-10 mph wind. I always land my canopy in full forward drive. I've been jumping triathlon 220-190, and I have jumped a pd silhouette ,flight concepts 190 pro. In my opinion a light wing loading on this canopy won't save your ass, I'm told that with a front riser turn you can burn thru a 1000 ft in no time. more later blueskies jerry Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
alan 1 #9 April 8, 2003 I agree with AggieDave, your choice of canopy is well suited for learning the fundmentals of hp canopy control (swooping). You will have the oportunity to practice basic skills on a relatively easy canopy, but and it is a big but, as your skills improve, you should find that the canopy can stay with you for much longer than you might think initially. If you really take the time and effort to advance your skills, you should find that this canopy is a much better performer than you might expect.........it may surprise you, pleasantly. It is more about you than it is the canopy. It will perform if and when you do. Go for it and have fun.alan Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zenister 0 #10 April 8, 2003 somewhat different animals, but ive been flying my Sabre I 190 at that wingloading for a while (200 jumps) and enjoyed every moment of it, including getting some nice (relatively) swoops out of it. Since the Saber II would seem to be the next evolution i would imagine you can have just as much or more fun then i've been having on mine.. now where did i put that 150??____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CanuckInUSA 0 #11 April 8, 2003 When I was flying my Sabre2 190 (loaded a tad over 1.2:1) I was able to carve turns with my front risers and believe it or not, I got semi-swoop landings out of it. And I liked the Sabre2 so much, that I got myself a Sabre2 170 (which is plenty small and fast enough for me at this stage of my skydiving career). So I'm sure you'll like a Sabre2 190. It's got a flatter glide angle than any F-111 and/or 7 cell canopy you've likely used and it's a good canopy to be learning with. But be warned, if new, expect a super slippier-than-owls-shit canopy fabric which can be an adventure to pack. Try not to worry about the things you have no control over Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Viking 0 #12 April 8, 2003 Quote What I can tell you is at factory toggle settings I was not able to stall the canopy. I know exactly what you mean! I got the chance to put the first jump on a rental Sabre 2 210 my last time at perris. The brakes were set very deep! The tail didn't start to deflect until after the toggles were below my shoulders! Made for an exciting landing!I swear you must have footprints on the back of your helmet - chicagoskydiver My God has a bigger dick than your god -George Carlin Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zenister 0 #13 April 8, 2003 Quote But be warned, if new, expect a super slippier-than-owls-shit canopy fabric which can be an adventure to pack. i think i just put the first 7 jumps on a sabre II 170 from Square 1 this weekend, your right it was really slippery, but then thats what green pieces of paper are for..honestly i thought i got flatter glide from my sabre I but its still a great canopy____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #14 April 8, 2003 QuoteThe brakes were set very deep! The tail didn't start to deflect until after the toggles were below my shoulders! That probably wasn't the factory setting, then. Every Sabre2 I've hooked up and everyone I've seen has the brakes set to what I consider to be short. Too short to do front riser turns without deflecting the tail. Although, nicely set, if you're not into front risers.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
b1jercat 0 #15 April 8, 2003 Quick note i was told you want 3-6 inches from the stops before the tail startes to deflect? However I still need to front riser the canopy to be sure, when I had my hands down to my shoulders I was well into brakes. blueskies jerry Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
blueshrew 0 #16 April 8, 2003 QuoteThat probably wasn't the factory setting, then. Every Sabre2 I've hooked up and everyone I've seen has the brakes set to what I consider to be short. Too short to do front riser turns without deflecting the tail. Although, nicely set, if you're not into front risers. Then what you've jumped was probably not the factory setting. All 5 Sabre2's at my home DZ (including mine), and all 3 at my second home DZ had brakes that were too long. Judging from the posts in the forums that seems to be the general case, at least with 1-1.2:1 wingloadings. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #17 April 8, 2003 QuoteThe brakes were set very deep! The tail didn't start to deflect until after the toggles were below my shoulders! Well, seeing how I'm the one that hooked up two of them and set the brakes, I know that they were. Also, since the other two I've jumped were demos from PD, I know that they were. Oh, and the one that I helped a friend hook up, I know that that one was. They were all set correctly and all of them deflected the tail on front riser stuff.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkymonkeyONE 4 #18 April 8, 2003 Arthur, lend me your parachute and I will show you what is possible with a big parachute. A good pilot can do incredible things with just about anything. Too lazy to pack one day while on vacation, I picked up my dad's extra rig at the end of the day (Sabre 210), and promply swooped it clear across the landing area. It's all about just learning how to gain enough velocity in order to convert it to longer distance once around the corner. Chuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Viking 0 #19 April 8, 2003 LOL that would be a hoot to watch!! I saw one of my instructors (Normally flys a Volicity 89 @ 2.3:1) whip a 90 front riser to double fronts on a PD-210!!!! matter of fact i got a picture of it! I have no dought it can be done but i am just concerned that what i learned won't be accurate when I i start loading up on what ever canopy i am on. But i geuss you have relearn every time you get a new main so. Thanx for the advice guys keep it coming!! I swear you must have footprints on the back of your helmet - chicagoskydiver My God has a bigger dick than your god -George Carlin Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #20 April 8, 2003 QuoteBut i geuss you have relearn every time you get a new main The technique? Nope, that stays with ya, now how you exactly do it for that main, yeah, each one is a bit different. However, the skills you learn directly translate.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
towerrat 0 #21 April 8, 2003 Nothing personal dude, but I would probably wait till I had more than 50 jumps before I start worrying about high performance canopy flight.I come from a busy dropzone and have seen quite a few people, including some close friends join the helicopter club.Have you ever seen a compound fracture? If you're gonna be dumb you gotta be tough.....Play stupid games, win stupid prizes! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Viking 0 #22 April 9, 2003 Hi Randy, No i have not seen a compound fracture but i have witness my best friend with 6000+ jumps tib fib himself b/c of a freak rotor off some trees, seen someone hit the ground in a dive under somthing really small, One of my friends shattered her hip (among other things) from a low turn, another friend femur himself (put his ankle up by his neck) when he front risered himself into the ground under a Stilleto 107. I have seen some scary shit, just like alot of people. I have also been asking questions of the people at my DZ, and here on dz.com. I have several good friends that have instilled the idea of GO SLOW!! As for 50 jumps being to early, i hope you don't think i am gonna go out and start hooking every landing. That is just not me!!I swear you must have footprints on the back of your helmet - chicagoskydiver My God has a bigger dick than your god -George Carlin Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
towerrat 0 #23 April 9, 2003 I understand where you are coming from dude, but please don't misunderstand me. I'm not trying to be a jerk or sound like a skygod (300 jumps). I jumped a Sabre 170 loaded at 1.26 for more than 200 jumps. I have just stepped down to a Sabre 2 150. I just want you to realize how fast your canopy can go,both horizontally and vertically. It can and will kill you. Make no mistake about that. I have scared the living shit out of myself out of myself under that 170, and I consider myself a fairly conservative pilot. Just food for thought.Play stupid games, win stupid prizes! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jethers203 0 #24 April 9, 2003 I too received a couple Sabre 2 Demo's that seemed to have long factory break settings. I also got my Sabre 2 150 that had breaks set a bit too long and the other 4 Sabre 2 at my DZ in El Paso were set a little long. There is a reason why you can adjust them. I would rather have them set a little long then short. You can always take a wrap or 2 until you get them set to your liking. Maybe though us West Texans just have short arms. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jethers203 0 #25 April 9, 2003 I'm in Randy's boat as far as jump numbers go. I had about 350 jumps on a Triathlon 175 before I moved down to a Sabre 2 150. I tried to fly the hell out of that canopy before downsizing and I learned pretty good canopy skills early on a canopy I was familiar with. However comma.....a Sabre 2 loaded 1:1 is okay in my opinion. There are some DZs that use them for student gear. Just be responsible and no your limits. You can make this great sport as safe or as dangerous as you want. John D-24352 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
