PhreeZone 20 #1 October 28, 2002 I hit JumpShacks web page today and saw they have a new canopy out... any one have details on it? Stiletto clone, ect... I did see its a hybrid canopy with ZP top and F111 bottom so I'm wondering how high of performance the canopy is after 1000 jumps?Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #2 October 28, 2002 QuoteI did see its a hybrid canopy with ZP top and F111 bottom Sounds like a Navigator, even though its a 'stiletto clone' do you think its trying to be sold to students or to jumpers as a transition from student gear?--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 20 #3 October 28, 2002 Its a full blown elliptical targeted at experienced jumpers.Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kris 0 #4 October 28, 2002 Quote Its a full blown elliptical targeted at experienced jumpers. As a hybrid design? Umm, I'll stick with my all-ZP Stiletto, thanks. Kris Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
weid14 0 #5 October 28, 2002 QuoteI hit JumpShacks web page today and saw they have a new canopy out... any one have details on it? Stiletto clone, ect... I did see its a hybrid canopy with ZP top and F111 bottom so I'm wondering how high of performance the canopy is after 1000 jumps? Hmmm, I've actually seen their prototypes in the air, and getting packed, I didn't think the bottom skin was non-zpo, but could be wrong. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kris 0 #6 October 28, 2002 QuoteHmmm, I've actually seen their prototypes in the air, and getting packed, I didn't think the bottom skin was non-zpo, but could be wrong. Jumpshack's website describes the bottom skin as being constructed of PN-1 (F-111) material. Kris Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #7 October 28, 2002 I honestly can't think of any reason why this would be a good "high performance" canopy, for any jumper except for someone looking to transition with an elliptical canopy. Even then it doesn't sound like a very good idea, if it was a square, that'd be one thing.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyMissy 0 #8 October 28, 2002 I'm really not sure what the harm would be in having slightly porous bottom skin. Maybe a little pressure would be lost out of the tail bottom....I dunno, I'd probably jump it before I decided one way or the other.________________________________________________ Mike Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AndyMan 7 #9 October 29, 2002 Remember that most wear to F-111 canopies happens during packing, specifically the part where you lie down on top of it to squeeze the air out, massaging it into the cigar shape. This isn't an issue because you would be in contact with only the top-skin, the f-111 fabric is safely hidden underneath the z-po stuff. New f-111 fabric is nearly z-po, it only gaines permability as it ages. If you could stop the f-111 fabric from wearing, it'd have identical flight characteristics to a z-po one. Having only f-111 on the bottom skin approaches stopping the wear. PD has been selling the Sillouette for years as a z-po f-111 hybrid. You don't hear many people complaining about the f-111 bottom skin deteriorating. That said... while I don't think there's a lot of disadvantages to a hybrid design... I wonder if there are any advantages? _Am__ You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jimbo 0 #10 October 29, 2002 Quotehat said... while I don't think there's a lot of disadvantages to a hybrid design... I wonder if there are any advantages? The advantage to the manufacturer that I can see is cost, I have to believe that F111 fabric is less expeisive than ZP. What happens when the F111 bottom skin wears? Does the bottom skin get so porous that it inflates almost immediatly from the air coming from underneath and not through the nose? Does F111 fabric add more drag? Lots of questions, lots of questions... - Jim"Like" - The modern day comma Good bye, my friends. You are missed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fasterfaller 0 #11 October 29, 2002 Jeez , Jump Shack needs to get with the times . Why would they buold a canopy like that ? I do have to admit that the racer is a comfy rig though . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
weid14 0 #12 October 29, 2002 QuoteJeez , Jump Shack needs to get with the times . Why would they buold a canopy like that ? I do have to admit that the racer is a comfy rig though . they've made some considerable improvements to the container, anc continue to work on it, I'll have to check the canopy out this weekend and end speculation. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AndyMan 7 #13 October 29, 2002 from their website: Jump Shack "This True Elliptical canopy has 128 Square Feet on an aspect ratio of 2.65 to 1. It features a Zero Porsity top skin and an F-111 bottom skin. It is intended for use by highly experienced Skydivers who are looking for a high performance Canopy". Interestingly, it also says : "Manufacturer Parachute Labs., Inc. " Who's Parachute labs., Inc.? _Am__ You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
weid14 0 #14 October 29, 2002 Quote Who's Parachute labs., Inc.? _Am probably a DBA in their building to keep things seperate. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wingnut 0 #15 November 7, 2002 looking atmy racer owners manual it says jumpshack on the front but under the buisness adres it is parachute labs inc. seems they are one and the same... maybe the legal name is parachute labs inc.... the reserve pin cover on my racer i have says paracht labs under the name it was tso'd under.........i think jump shack is just a trade name... ______________________________________ "i have no reader's digest version" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
weid14 0 #16 November 7, 2002 it's not uncommon to have a DBA under another name. the name on the building is Jump Shack.... oh, and the canopy is non-Zpo on the bottom skin. They did it to get the opening characteristics they were looking for. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 643 #17 November 7, 2002 Sorry folks, but I am not bright enough to understand why you are bashing hybrid canopies made of two different fabrics. P.D. has been building hybrid tandem canopies (i.e. EZ-384) since the mid-1990s, with excellent results. EZ-384 canopies seem to last about as long as the all-ZP canopies built by other manufacturers. The primary advantage of hybrid canopies is that it is easier to squeeze the air out when you are packing. Since most of the lift comes from the top skin, I cannot see a disadvantage to building the bottom skin out of F-111. It is nice if the end ribs and stabilizers are also built of F-111, just to keep air pressure in. No-one cares about the porosity of inner ribs because they are purely structural. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 20 #18 November 7, 2002 So how does the Firebolt fly? Whats it close to?Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
weid14 0 #19 November 7, 2002 Quote Sorry folks, but I am not bright enough to understand why you are bashing hybrid canopies made of two different fabrics. P.D. has been building hybrid tandem canopies (i.e. EZ-384) since the mid-1990s, with excellent results. EZ-384 canopies seem to last about as long as the all-ZP canopies built by other manufacturers. The primary advantage of hybrid canopies is that it is easier to squeeze the air out when you are packing. Since most of the lift comes from the top skin, I cannot see a disadvantage to building the bottom skin out of F-111. It is nice if the end ribs and stabilizers are also built of F-111, just to keep air pressure in. No-one cares about the porosity of inner ribs because they are purely structural. I wasn't suggesting it was bad or it was good, just clarifing construction materials. Tim really didn't give me a feel for a canopy comparison, he just indicated he liked it a lot, and was going to build himself a smaller one Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
