mischo 0 #1 October 28, 2002 Hello Gang, I posted on the gear and rigging site earlier and didn't get the response I was looking for. So I will ask y'all here, what are the pros & cons of these two canopies. I am only looking for a few characteristics in a canopy. I would like to be able to make it back from a AFF slot on the load. I would like a nice swoop with easy front riser pressure. I would like soft openings and finally I don't want it to take me to the abyss every time I have one or two twists in the lines. I know, I will try to pull stable. If any one on line flys Velocities or VX's, please give me your advise. Blue skies and long swoops mish Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 20 #2 October 28, 2002 I know your not asking for info on other canopies but have you considered other non-crossbraced like the Cobalt, Crossifre2 and the Samauri? Alan should be able to answer your questions on the two you asked for.Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Canuck 0 #3 October 28, 2002 Let me begin by saying I don't fly either (I jump a Crossfire), but I know people that do, and I have been following these forums long enough that I think I can accurately encapsulate the general opinions on these two canopies. If you don't want a canopy that will occasionally, or even somewhat regularly, open quite briskly, the VX is not for you. It is prone to hard openings. It's a swoopin' machine, and was never really intended as an all'rounder. I know lots of people who jump Velocity's and love the openings, riser pressure is going to be lighter on the Velocity, and getting back from long spots will also be easier. And hey...the Velocity holds the current records for both distance and speed...how can you argue with that?! Oh yeah, they retail cheaper too. Canuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
base363 0 #4 October 28, 2002 If your set on a cross braced canopy, you might want to consider the Xaos. Openings and swoops are great, and so is the price. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ramon 0 #5 October 28, 2002 Since no one else is really posting. I only have one jump on a velocity at 2.0 (200 on an FX at 2.0) and 100 on a vX at 2.2. I know this is probably not quite what you are looking for but.... compared to the fX the velocity seems more like the VX...more rigid and more sensitive to harness turns than the fX and more snap in the toggles. The VX is a little more extreme with the harness turns and the toggle turns than the velocity. The velocity opened nice (my FX is prone to slight spank if close attention is not paid to the slider). My VX opens soft (lucky I guess) My fX at 2.0 will hold in brakes longer than a saber loaded at 1.3. the VX at 2.2 won't. I think if you can demo the VX and the Velocity (due to inconsistency in VX openings some are hard, but mine is soft like I said) you may prefer the velocity. If you keep up with the swoop meets you will see that the velocities fare very well. A respected velocity pilot I know loads his like 2.4 and can shut it down with a little foot slide as if it were much bigger so I think the consensus is that they may have a lower stall speed than the same sized FX. My VX seems pretty tricky during the last part of the flare to have a good stop. It is twitchy and can very easily make a last minute cours adjustment during the swoop to avoid an obstacle, but it makes that precise application of good brakes to get all your flare before stall somehting of an art. I really like the VX but if you jump camera I think the Velocity might give you more consistent openeings and very similar performance. It seems to me that a VX might be a little better at doing things like a 90-180 degree turn during a swoop, but for speed and length of swoop the veolcity is at least the equal of the VX (given luck weather conditions and other factors tend to throw either canopy ahead). The jury is still out on the Xaos but they seem to be holding their own and seem to have a flatter glide. Everyone raves about the openings and the light riser pressure but some people are of the opinion that they may be a little less unstable and there are some stiff arguements about the new lines. If I were you I would borrow/demo all of them, but one thing is for sure. PD tests the shit out of their product and I think it shows with the velocity. If you look closely you will notice that the velocity has a cross brace pattern that puts more cross bracing in it than an FX and that a vX has a similar pattern but with two more cells. The Xaos 21 has the same cross brace pattern as an FX (not a velocity) and the XAOS 27 has the same cross bracing as a VX. If I were to buy a brand new canopy I would probably get a velocity. As it is I got a nice VX with "lucky" soft openings from "parachutist" for a decent price and ...well it was the right size too and I have a way to go before I am really getting everything out of it...but it swoops far. If I were a videographer at a dZ I might want a 21 cell canopy at 2.0 instead for those bad spot days. Good luck and keep us informed. ramon"Revolution is an abrupt change in the form of misgovernment.", Ambrose Bierce. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
alan 1 #6 October 28, 2002 Ramon gave you a pretty fair and detailed run down on the canopies. Given what you have stated, I agree the Velocity may be the better choice for you, but you really should demo. Xaos 27 at 2.45 for me was a very nice canopy. Good glide, great openings.......nicer than my VX at about the same loading (88' vs 89' on the VX). Haven't jumped the Xaos 21 yet. Now for the kicker, I had the X-mod on my VX and it is now the sweetest canopy (although it always was one of the "good ones"). Smooth, soft, consistent openings. Even better glide. Better flare. My personal choices would lean towards the Xaos 27 or X-mod VX over the Velocity (I think they both open nicer and more consistently and have better glide) although PD is just simply an outstanding company with great products and great service. HMA lines seem to have some controversy, which in my opinion is unfounded and mostly based on lack of knowledge. I believe they will soon be the standard for high performance canopies in the x-braced class.alan Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mischo 0 #7 October 28, 2002 Hey Y'all , Thanks for all of the good advise, I appreciate it. I am not up on the industries latest and greatest,what is the controversy with the XAOS' lines? mish Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bobsoutar 0 #8 October 28, 2002 Don't know about the lines issue but an AFF instructor friend of mine is selling his Velocity because he prefers his new Zaos 21. Reckons he gets lovely openings, nice swoops and can get back from long spots easily on rear risers. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ramon 0 #9 October 28, 2002 This is hearsay: It has been said that if you bend the lines and look at them under a microscope, fibers snap. It is also said they are not UV resistant and that they are banned in Europe. Facts. They use HMA for Sails on boats. (sails do put up with some high forces and are exposed to UV all day. fact I saw a guy jumping a Xaos 135 at about 1.9 break 5-6 lines and have the cooles malfunction I have ever seen. If you search the archives you will find a little thread about it. search for HMA. ramon"Revolution is an abrupt change in the form of misgovernment.", Ambrose Bierce. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gus 1 #10 October 28, 2002 Rumour has it HMA lines have been banned on (European?) Paragliders because of fears over their UV resistance. Some people also reckon HMA doesn't show wear the same way as Spectra which means they'll break without any visible warning. All or none of this may be true! GusOutpatientsOnline.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
eames 0 #11 October 28, 2002 At the PST Team Challenge earlier this month, all of the PD Factory Team canopies were lined with extremely small, cascaded HMA. The Team Xaos canopies were also lined with cascaded HMA. So, I'll have to agree with Alan: things are moving in that direction. Although PD may only use HMA for their competition team.... My last 500 jumps have been on canopies lined with HMA, and I only have good things to say. The characteristics you asked about are: Quote I would like to be able to make it back from a AFF slot on the load. I would like a nice swoop with easy front riser pressure. I would like soft openings and finally I don't want it to take me to the abyss every time I have one or two twists in the lines. I won't speak for the Velocity, VX, etc., because I have less than 100 jumps on each of them, but both the Xaos-21 and the Xaos-27 definitely exhibit these qualities. They both swoop very well (the -27 swoops better for me), and they both have very manageable front riser pressure. The openings are the best of any canopy I've jumped, including a Spectre and a Cobalt. The -21 may open just a bit better, but the -27 is a close second. Line twists have been very easy to deal with on both.... I've jumped a -21 at a loading of 2.3 (which worked well for me), a -27 at 2.5 (which I was not a big fan of), and a -27 at just under 2.1 (which is what I'm jumping now and I love it!). As for glide: I have no problem at all floating with a tandem with my -27 loaded at 2.1. btw, I have a -27 94 and a -21 98 for sale... Jason Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BMFin 0 #12 October 28, 2002 BTW... Would it be possible to reline your current canopy with HMA. (what ever brand it is) Not that I would be so interested to do it. Just interested. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkymonkeyONE 4 #13 October 28, 2002 Yes, you can reline your canopy with HMA. Chuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mischo 0 #14 October 28, 2002 Skymonkey One, I was wondering if you were planning on going to the CSS Thanksgiving boogie, and if you are, would you be interested in some canopy coaching. MISH Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RichM 0 #15 October 29, 2002 Quote Skymonkey One, I was wondering if you were planning on going to the CSS Thanksgiving boogie, and if you are, would you be interested in some canopy coaching. MISH I think Chuck probably has a good understanding of canopy piloting although I'm sure he'll be grateful for you offer to teach him some stuff Sorry, couldn't resist it Rich M Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mischo 0 #16 October 29, 2002 Yeah, I guess I stuck my keyboard in my mouth on that one. I actually was asking the opposite. I could use the coaching and would be willing to pay. Please forgive the inflection of the e-mail. mish Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
brits17 0 #17 October 29, 2002 hi, you've gotten some great sound advice so far so i won't put in much... since a lot of what you've gotten is from more experienced canopy pilots than me. i put 50 demo jumps on an FX and 50 on a velocity and the velocity won my favor huge. from openings to swoops, it was the better performing canopy. plus the people at PD were wonderful. openings are more predictable, swoops are longer, and its a more responsive canopy in my opinion. but yes, like everyone said so far... demo!!! good luck. _______________________ aerialkinetics.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkymonkeyONE 4 #18 October 29, 2002 QuoteSkymonkey One, I was wondering if you were planning on going to the CSS Thanksgiving boogie, and if you are, would you be interested in some canopy coaching. MISH As it stands, I think I will probably be there. CSS is very cool at Thanksgiving and Easter. I still might be swayed into going down to Z-hills, but if I am at CSS I will certainly help you out with some coaching. Chuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
