riggerrob 643 #1 February 6, 2002 How many jumps per year would someone need to be safe under an Icarus Extremely Extreme 37?Since we have concluded - on other threads - that total numbers are a crude way to measure skill, let's limit our disscusions to the number of jumps made during the past year.Let's share opinions that relate currency to canopy class and wing loading.Let's also consider what size and class of canopy you can safely jump after a long winter layoff. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skycat 0 #2 February 6, 2002 ummmm....well the guy who jumps the VX 60 @ 3.1 has done over 600 jumps on it in the last year. Averages about 10 jumps a weekend. He is also a pilot working on his commercial rating. As for a layoff, he has to jump at least one weekend a month, he can go longer, but doesn't like to. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
weid14 0 #3 February 6, 2002 0 - it's a trick question Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Geoff 0 #4 February 6, 2002 Ok here's an opinion, linked to wingload. These are minimum currency levels below which I would start to feel nervous for the jumper involved.Up to 1.0: 30 jumps / year ( I regard this as the minimum to stay current at all)around 1.4: 100 jumps / yeararound 1.8: 200 jumps / yearabove 2.2: 400 jumps / year + Obviously it depends on the individual jumper, but I certainly think that jumps/year has a better link to wing loading and safety than total jumps.(For info, I load at about 1.7-1.8 and try to do 200 per year.)No I'm not in favour of the USPA, BPA, or anyone else introducing rules of this nature.Flame away!Geoff Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AndyMan 7 #5 February 6, 2002 QuoteUp to 1.0: 30 jumps / year ( I regard this as the minimum to stay current at all)around 1.4: 100 jumps / yeararound 1.8: 200 jumps / yearabove 2.2: 400 jumps / year + How should the short season up North affect these numbers?Is it fair to take the numbers, divide in half for 6 monthes?_Am Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkydiveMonkey 0 #6 February 6, 2002 Quote divide in half for 6 monthes? But dividing it by 1/2 would double the number needed. Don't you mean multiplying it by 1/2? my mind is like a canopy - 9 cells and I'm happy Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 20 #7 February 6, 2002 My opinion....Min of 30 a year to fly at 1.0:1Min of 150 a year to fly above 1.25:1Min of 225 a year to fly greater then 1.4:1Min of 300 to fly greater then 1.6:1Min of 350+ to fly greater then 1.8:1Pref 500+ a year to fly greater then 2.0:1 (Once you reach this level you seem to know your limits and don't need advised anymore)Murphy's Laws of Love - If the person isn't taken, there's a reason for that... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fred 0 #8 February 7, 2002 QuoteDon't you mean multiplying it by 1/2?Troll. :) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skymedic 0 #9 February 7, 2002 No he just listened to his math teacher in school....and my answer would be like dave....0!!!marc"...a mind stretched with new idea's will never regain its shape" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Geoff 0 #10 February 7, 2002 QuoteHow should the short season up North affect these numbers?Sorry - I don't have any first hand experience of that. I jump mainly in the UK. Winter weather can be crap here, but we still get to jump at least every few weeks. Geoff Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LawnDart21 0 #11 February 7, 2002 I'm just wondering where the replies on currency based on wingloading are coming from? Experience or other peoples opinions? Not trying to be a flame, Asking legitamately. I only have 50+ jumps on a 1.7 loaded elliptical (this is my first year with it), (only 420 jumps total with only a year and a half in the sport) so I couldn't advise or suggest a min # of jumps per year on a 1.7 or higher loading. Because a) I haven't jumped a single wing loading for an entire year and b) I haven't jumped any extreme canopies at 1.8 or higher. I'm not knocking you Phree, it's just (assuming you've never jumped a 1.8 or higher) how can you recommend currency numbers? Anyways, again, not trying to be a flame, just honestly asking, cause some people just pass through here and read what we write and interpret it as fact. If you got the info from a canopy expert at your DZ, then by all means I apologize, no flame intended.Cheers and Beers, Tom Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 20 #12 February 7, 2002 I've sat down and talked to a few people about this same issue in the last year. Most are high jump number jumpers at my DZ. But a few were from outside my DZ. The main ones that influenced my thinking on this one is John LeBlanc and Brian Germain. Both explained canopy control and currency very well to me. I recommended a bit higher numbers then they did. Like John was thinking 150 for a 1.3-1.4, but after seeing lots of low number jumpers fly in the last 2 year, I always say more experience for added saftey. Look at Icurus's site for thier breakdown of the numbers. Icurus is big into down sizing and they still recommend a season or two of flying HP canopies at Level 4 before going higher.As for my experience..... I've loaded a Stiletto 120 at 1.62:1 before but never anything higher. I just don't have the experience for it.Murphy's Laws of Love - If the person isn't taken, there's a reason for that... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LawnDart21 0 #13 February 7, 2002 The question was only referring to currency numbers on the highly loaded canopies. Obviously your opinion on canopy loadings you've jumped or are jumping are certainly valid. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LawnDart21 0 #14 February 7, 2002 Cool thanks for the info. It's tough to ask questions on this board sometimes without people getting all defensive. Mucho Appreciation! Brian is a huge resource on canopy sizing and experience. He should write a book about canopy flight. What did you think of the Stilletto, I demo'd a 120 and was all set to buy it, then I talked with a few people (Brian being one of them ironicaly) and I became aware of the "Spinetto" nickname. Then with the crossfire problems, I decided to go with an airlock and am glad i did. I wante dto buy a Samuria but I get employee discounts on PD gear at my DZ so it was a financial decision that made me pick the vengeance. Am happy with it though, it flys greatPeace! Tom Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 20 #15 February 7, 2002 Actually... Look in the Gear area.... I'm looking at both those canopies (Samurai and Vengence) as a replacement to my Cobalt. Put your input on them if you have an opinion. Murphy's Laws of Love - If the person isn't taken, there's a reason for that... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GrumpySmurf 0 #16 February 7, 2002 No clue, but can someone find me an insurance policy to take out on the individual in question that won't rule jumping under something that small consitutes suicide? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GrumpySmurf 0 #17 February 7, 2002 If you mena up north like in Vancouver, they don't have winter - they have rainy season and rainier season *heh* Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LawnDart21 0 #18 February 7, 2002 No problem, will post opinions in gear section after lunch. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
amir1967 0 #19 February 7, 2002 what size this Vengeance is .I have one 170 at 1.4 and have alot more to learn but I love it amirAM67 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LawnDart21 0 #20 February 8, 2002 Its a vengeance 120. I LOVE IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"I live to EFS"Tom Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 643 #21 February 8, 2002 Don't worry about USPA legislating experience to wing loading ratios: they are far too politically correct. Given recent fatality rates, they probably should, just don't hold your breath.The Australian Parachute Federation published flexible guidelines on this a few years ago. In Oz you need a recommendation from your Club Chief Instructor before you can move to the next heavier class of wing loading. Icarus have published similar guidelines on their website.My original question asked people to relate number of jumps per year to the various APF wing loading classes. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeflir29 0 #22 February 8, 2002 "In Oz you need a recommendation from your Club Chief Instructor before you can move to the next heavier class of wing loading"Of course....they can't own guns any more either...."I only have 125 jumps, so I don't know shit..right?"-Clay Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyhawk 2 #23 February 9, 2002 you can if you dont get caught lol :)(o)(o) i got a iq of 189 so there Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkymonkeyONE 4 #24 February 10, 2002 QuoteI'm looking at both those canopies (Samurai and Vengence) as a replacement to my Cobalt. Put your input on them if you have an opinionAre you looking at those two canopies because you think you will bet better performance than under your Cobalt, or are you looking to downsize or something? Personally, I wouldn't waste my money on a Vengeance for any reason. I had a 97 that I jumped about a week before I sold it. If you don't really want or need to downsize, then I recommend sending your Cobalt to Joe Bennet for the H-mod. $150 and it flies quite a bit different than stock. Steeper dives and more speed at the bottom end make Chuck a happy boy. It snivels a bit more, but that's fine with me. If you want to buy a NEW canopy, look at the competition cobalt. It is simply outstanding and flies circles around a stock Cobalt (which flies circles around the Vengeance). Holler at me for more info.ChuckMy webpage HERE Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
