Wanting to learn

[lazerq3 0]

Heres my thing....I 've started to practice 45 to 90 degree toggle turns and then pulling down my front risers just before landing to get some surf however I am doing this on a PD 170 (f111) loaded 1.01 to1. Am I wasting my time trying to learn on this canopy? I'm looking to go to a hornet 150 (1.1 to 1 loading) but I just dont have the $$$ to purchase right now!
jason

[Jimbo 0]

I'm not exactly a champion swooper, but I hardly think you're wasting your time. Develop good habits on a canopy that won't kill you for looking at it funny, then, when you move down to a more responsive canopy you will have already developed the habits needed to fly it correctly.

[mountainman 0]

You know, you could probably get a used Hornet for a VERY good price from someone. I know you probably couldn't sell your current and get it for the same price, but it probably wouldn't be too much more. Just an idea since the Hornets don't sell for as much as other brands of the same "class" (PD, Icarus, etc).
JumpinDuo.com...come and sign the guestbook.

[lazerq3 0]

MM, Yeah I've been on the look out and I saw April has a 170 for sale but I would like to go to a 150. I figure I can problalby get around 350 to 400 for mine, but I have a feeling it may still be a while, and I've heard that f111 arent the best for surfing so I want to get into zp. I dont know maybe I'm just rushing things to fast !!!!
jason

[prost 0]

I think you should learn everything you want to do on your new canopy on the one you already have.
William

[lazerq3 0]

But is that going to be a problem because it is f-111? I heard that there are limitations on f-111 compared to zp, and one of them is that it is hard to surf f-111 than zp! Im not trying to do any swoops yet by no means , just trying to learn to get some surf!!
jason

[prost 0]

yes it has limitations. One of them is that because the fabric os more porrus, you have to flare it more to get the same amount of lift. This will shorten surfs. Doesn't mean it can't be done, and doesn't mean you can't learn on an F-111 canopy.
William

[freeflir29 0]

Well....if you haven't seen my posts. I fly a PD 190 loaded about 1.3. I can get 60 ft + surfs on a nice no wind day. Doesn't swoop much when it's windy cause the square canopy just won't cut through the wind. IMHO it's an excellent canopy to learn on. The riser pressure isn't too terrible and the recovery arc is pretty quick so it's easy to save yourself if you screw up. Try some 90 degree front riser turns. Make sure your brakes aren't too tight. If it's not turning well or "bucking" a little let the brakes out some. I have to grab my risers at the connector links. The brakes are just too short (I have them as far out as I can get them without putting new lines on) to use the dive loops. If you can swoop an F-111 canopy I think it will be far easier to do the same thing and more on ZP. Just make sure that you always leave yourself room to stop the turn early if you are too low. Don't ever think you "HAVE" to roll out on a certain heading. Thats how people get hurt.
"Houston? That place is full of Crack heads and debutantes."- Hank Hill
Clay

[MarcusV 0]

  Quote

and the recovery arc is pretty quick so it's easy to save yourself if you screw up

Clay,
do you really mean, the shorter the recovery arc the safer you are?
Blues Marcus
Perfect speed, my son, is being there. - Jonathan Livingston Seagull

[rhino 0]

Jason,
Find the best swooper at your DZ and pick his brain.. That's the best way to learn. If you are going to carve with what you have you should start with double FRONT risers not toggles. Then move to a 45degree FRONT riser carve, then a 90degree FRONT riser carve. This is a high energy move not a low energy move. When you use rear risers you are actually killing your energy.. When you use fronts you are gaining energy which can save your ass if you get in a hot spot. Speed is your friend here, you can always pull out with too much speed but you can't if you are in a stall.. Best bet is to find the best and pick his brain though.. Rhino
Blue Skies and Smooth Rides!!

[freeflir29 0]

"the shorter the recovery arc the safer you are?"
Well.....This is an opinionated issue. My PD 190 has a pretty sharp recovery arc. I have to turn a little lower or hold the front risers a little longer to surf. Now.....yes..I'm holding the risers down closer to the ground so I have less time to make the decision of whether I need to dig out or not. But...with a longer recovery arc the effects of screwing up are going to get cumulative very quickly. Typically a canopy that has a longer recovery arc loses a hell of a lot more altitude from any type of turn. This means things happen faster. Hooking any canopy is a learning process but I have a hard time believing that I would want to learn on a canopy that drops 200-250 ft in a 180 riser turn than 100-150 ft. Plus....the faster canopy is just more dangerous than a stable square. But...I only have 125 jumps so I don't know shit....right?
"Houston? That place is full of Crack heads and debutantes."- Hank Hill
Clay

[MarcusV 0]

  Quote

But...I only have 125 jumps so I don't know shit....right?

Clay, I didn't know that, but yes, right.
But you're learning and developing, and that's cool. Today's best supported students are the best supporting instructors of tomorrow.
Just my 2 cents
blues Marcus (don't know shit either)
--
Perfect speed, my son, is being there. - Jonathan Livingston Seagull

[rhino 0]

I don't think I would have gotten my ass chewed if trying to carve or hook a canopy with a shallow recovery arc was the right thing to do.. Trust me when I say 300 feet is easier to judge than 100 feet, just like 500 feet is easier to judge than 300 feet. I have seen a few people hooking canopies with shallow recovery arcs get "tunnel vision" fixating on one spot on the ground for some reason and WACK! Damn it looks bad and it is embarrasing. The LAST time I carved my Triathlon150 was when I put my knees in the ground in front of 100 people. Luckily I am flexible, it was a wet day, and I had hit the rock point of the canopy before I hit. I had enough speed for the canopy to take off again and I had a flare landing. I walked away without a scratch. But I had to sleep with a pillow between my legs for 2 months it hurt so bad that night and for a month. It was a humbling experience and I am glad it happened on a 150 rather than on a 110!! Now.. Had the Triathlon had the handling capability that my diablo has and the response time I might have avoided hitting the ground because it would have responded quicker. Or I would be dead?? One or the other. I learned. That's the point.. And it backed me off BIG TIME!!! I was LUCKY!!! Damn lucky.. Everyone I talked to said I should have broke both femers that day. And I have it on video.. I caught shit for a month.. Learn from my mistake!! And trust me after it happens to you and you hear that distinctive THUMP your stomach turns for that person.. I've seen it happen 4 times since I did it.. Twice because they made the same mistake I did.. Trying something they shouldn't have tried under the wrong type of canopy. Rhino
Blue Skies and Smooth Rides!!

[PhreeZone 20]

Let me get this right... you thump in under a 150 so you start downsizing and getting higher proformance canopies right away so that you don't thump in any more? Gee... that sounds smart.
I want to touch the sky, I want to fly so high ~ Sonique

[rhino 0]

You have SOOOOOO missed the point..... And it was a year ago... And actually after it happened I wouldn't even touch the front risers for 30 jumps..
Blue Skies and Smooth Rides!!

[freeflir29 0]

Well...I'll come find this thread after I demo the Cobalt and see what I think then.
"Houston? That place is full of Crack heads and debutantes."- Hank Hill
Clay

[lazerq3 0]

Thanks for the replys........I know exaclty whos brain to pick at our DZ!! Guess I better get off those toggles!!!
jason