bobsoutar 0 #26 October 29, 2002 Cheers for that Geoff - will pass it on to Jamie. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cobaltdan 0 #27 October 29, 2002 hi alan, "Any way, I asked if you had video showing a standard Cobalt consistently taking 1000' to open. I guess that would be a "no" for now." i have plenty of video on consistant 800' openings, with tandems i also can show consistant openings of double that. there are video's posted on our wed site that should be satisfactory. i agree with you that most modern soft openeing canopies fall in the 600-800 range. "Hey while I have you, what are your thoughts on using 1/4 to 1/2 brakes while landing in turbulence under a Cobalt?What kind of factor would wing loading play in the 1.2 to 2.2 range?" i have posted on turbulence threads in the past a recommendation of full flight through turbulence. sincerely, dan<><>Daniel Preston <><> atairaerodynamics.com (sport) atairaerospace.com (military) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hooknswoop 19 #28 October 29, 2002 QuoteIt was pointed out that the FARs specify who can make alterations to a main and that a Master Rigger is included in those who can. Which FAR says this? Hook Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
alan 1 #29 October 30, 2002 Quote -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Quote -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- It was pointed out that the FARs specify who can make alterations to a main and that a Master Rigger is included in those who can. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Which FAR says this? I'm surprised that you have to ask, but then maybe I shouldn't be, knowing that you have been doing a performance upgrade on Safire canopies. Might want to update your profile to reflect the Master Rigger rating. Anyway, FARs 65.125(b) and 65.129(a),(d) and (e) are relevant and AC 105-2 (5.b.(3)(e) further clarifies and explains that a Master Rigger may make alterations to the non-certificated main parachute without approval by the manufacturer or Adminisatrator. You could also find what you need to know in PPM Vol 1, page 375. I hope this helps.alan Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hooknswoop 19 #30 October 30, 2002 AC 105-2c: "Parachute alterations are changes to the FAA-approved configuration." Main parachutes are not FAA- approved "Specific approval is not needed for the method of altering a main parachute." "Alterations to Approved Parachutes may be Performed only by: (1) A certificated and appropriately rated master parachute rigger etc." The FAA is only concerned w/ TSO'd gear. It is not illegal to alter, repair, modify, or do anything else you want to do to a main parachute. BTW- I do have the manufacturer'a authorization to apply the performance option. Hook Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
alan 1 #31 October 30, 2002 Quote AC 105-2c: "Parachute alterations are changes to the FAA-approved configuration." Main parachutes are not FAA- approved "Specific approval is not needed for the method of altering a main parachute." "Alterations to Approved Parachutes may be Performed only by: (1) A certificated and appropriately rated master parachute rigger etc." Buried in there is the phrase "Specific approval is not needed for the method of altering a main parachute." The FAA apparently interprets that to mean that the who part applies, just not the how part. Try reading page 25 of PPM Vol 1 after re-reading page 375 Altering. Page 25 is from the FAA Inspectors Handbook (8440.5A). 4065. ALTERATIONS OF THE MAIN PARACHUTE. The main parachute of a dual parachute pack to be used for intentional jumping may be altered by a master parachute rigger, a parachute loft, the manufacturer, or any other manufacturer the Administrator considers to be competent. The alterations are not required to be made in accordance with approved manuals and specifications (Ref. FAR 149.9(b)). Quote The FAA is only concerned w/ TSO'd gear. It is not illegal to alter, repair, modify, or do anything else you want to do to a main parachute. You may want to inform the FAA of this as the above is from their General Aviation Operations Inspectors Handbook (8440.5A) SECTION 1. PARACHUTE EQUIPMENT AND PARACHUTING (INTENTIONAL PARACHUTE JUMPING - 105) Quote BTW- I do have the manufacturer'a authorization to apply the performance option. Kewl, apparently they don't know the rules either. Good thing it came up. Anyway, it is obvious that in todays real world the FARs are a little behind the industry and are far to vast and complicated for anyone to fully understand, especially when you add to them the ACs and Inspectors Handbooks with "clarifications" and what not. Personally, I think the FAA are the ones the most in the dark, we only have to know a few little sections out of the volumes they deal with. It is a dog eat dog world and we're all wearing milk bone shorts. alan Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hooknswoop 19 #32 October 30, 2002 QuoteI'm wondering, did you have their approval for the first one The first one was my BASE canopy. Also, "from the FAA Inspectors Handbook (8440.5A)": "The most common harness alterations are the addition of "D" rings to back-type harnesses for attachment of a chest type auxiliary pack, and addition of quick release fittings for the attachment of the main parachute canopy to the harness." "The main parachute is most often (but not always) worn on the back and the auxiliary on the chest." It refers to AC 105-1, which has since been updated to 105-2c It also states: "Any change to the configuration, method of operation, or method of packing the main parachute up to and including the main canopy attachment links or the male end of the quick release fittings is a main parachute alteration." So I guess if you aren't a Master Rigger and you ever experimented w/ different packing methods, you are in violation? Read page 2, (11.D) (12/20/96 a bit updated from the mostly outdated regulations in Poynters) of: http://www.faa.gov/avr/afs/faa/8300/8300_vol2/2_028_00.pdf Looks like the site is down, but anyway Chapter 28 Certificate Parachute Rigger/Added Rating 11. Parachute Rigger Privilages D. A certificated parachute rigger, without respect to ratings may pack, maintain, or alter the main parachute of a dual parachute pack to be used for intentional jumping." Hook Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
alan 1 #33 October 30, 2002 QuoteThe first one was my BASE canopy. Odd choice for a BASE canopy but convenient. QuoteAlso, "from the FAA Inspectors Handbook (8440.5A)": "The most common harness alterations are the addition of "D" rings to back-type harnesses for attachment of a chest type auxiliary pack, and addition of quick release fittings for the attachment of the main parachute canopy to the harness." "The main parachute is most often (but not always) worn on the back and the auxiliary on the chest." So you are saying that the FARS are a little behind the industry. I agree, as a matter of fact, I think I already stated that opinion. QuoteIt refers to AC 105-1, which has since been updated to 105-2c It also states: "Any change to the configuration, method of operation, or method of packing the main parachute up to and including the main canopy attachment links or the male end of the quick release fittings is a main parachute alteration." So I guess if you aren't a Master Rigger and you ever experimented w/ different packing methods, you are in violation? Technically it would seem to be the case, but it seems you have found yet a newer version that changes things dramatically. QuoteRead page 2, (11.D) (12/20/96 a bit updated from the mostly outdated regulations in Poynters) of: http://www.faa.gov/avr/afs/faa/8300/8300_vol2/2_028_00.pdf Looks like the site is down, but anyway Chapter 28 Certificate Parachute Rigger/Added Rating 11. Parachute Rigger Privilages D. A certificated parachute rigger, without respect to ratings may pack, maintain, or alter the main parachute of a dual parachute pack to be used for intentional jumping." I'm not sure what it is you have found, but will certainly study it when ther site is up. Looks like you may have found the end of the trail on this one, I'll review it though just in case you are trying to slip one by me. Nice digging, maybe now a whole bunch of people can be better informed with current information.alan Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
alan 1 #34 October 30, 2002 QuoteRead page 2, (11.D) (12/20/96 a bit updated from the mostly outdated regulations in Poynters) of: http://www.faa.gov/avr/afs/faa/8300/8300_vol2/2_028_00.pdf Looks like the site is down, but anyway Chapter 28 Certificate Parachute Rigger/Added Rating 11. Parachute Rigger Privilages D. A certificated parachute rigger, without respect to ratings may pack, maintain, or alter the main parachute of a dual parachute pack to be used for intentional jumping." This would ordinarily seem to settle the question, but if you are to read the entire section, there is something contrdictory and confusing it it as well. ther is also a part : A. At the time of original certification, each parachute rigger will be assigned an identifcation seal and symbol and issued a tempoary airman certificate. B. A certificated senior rigger parachute rigger may pack and maintain and supervise the packing of the types of parachute for which the rigger is rated. C. A certificate master parachute rigger may pack, maintain, or alter the type(s) of parachute for which the rigger is rated.supervise the packing of the types of parachutes for which the rigger is rated. Thr master parachute rigger may also supervise other persons in packing, maintain,or altering any type of parachute for which a rating is held. Now here is the odd one. D. A certificated parachute rigger, without respect to ratings may pack, maintain, or alter the main parachute of a dual parachute pack to be used for intentional jumping." B. clearly states the rights and priveleges of the senior rigger. D. Seems to just give carte blanch with the main to any rigger. I wonder which takes preference. It just muddies it up even more. When does one handbook supercede another? What authority does the handbook have? Do they have the effect of a FAR, even they don't go through the nprm or get passed br congress. Guidelines, interpretations, and clarifications. Are they really the law? Funny, I got you to dig this deep, but on my written exam for the senior ticket had a question appears as written in the Parachute Rigger Study Guide by Blackmon. 3032. Which of the following states the priveleges of a Senior Parachute Rgger Certificate? The correct anaswer was:3- Pack and maintain (except for major repair)any type of parachute for which he/she is rated. Incorrect was 1- Maintain, pack,inspect, and perform alteration on any type of parachute for which he is rated. Also refer to questions 3040 and 3041 on page 11 of the manual. It may be out of date as well, but those questions appeared on my FAA written exam taken after 1996. Those questions imply that a senior rigger can't replace a line set or alter the lenght of a bridle and the answers are referenced to the relevant FARS. So according to what you have found, a SR Rigger can alter but not make major repairs? Where do we draw that line. According to the exam and referenced FARs in the study guide, changing lines is a major repair and cannot be performed by a SR Rigger. Hmmmm... you can change them to alter a canopy, but not to repair it!!! Well it looks as if you have me, the FAA has added a privelege and didn't even bother to notify me or ask my input (NPRM). Maybe it is about time for Mr. Poynter to come out with a Vol. III. I sure have to hand it to you, you dug deep and knew where to dig. I wonder if the FAA test questions will be changed to relect this latest change?alan Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hooknswoop 19 #35 October 30, 2002 QuoteThis would ordinarily seem to settle the question, but if you are to read the entire section, there is something contrdictory and confusing it it as well. ther is also a part : A. At the time of original certification, each parachute rigger will be assigned an identifcation seal and symbol and issued a tempoary airman certificate. B. A certificated senior rigger parachute rigger may pack and maintain and supervise the packing of the types of parachute for which the rigger is rated. C. A certificate master parachute rigger may pack, maintain, or alter the type(s) of parachute for which the rigger is rated.supervise the packing of the types of parachutes for which the rigger is rated. Thr master parachute rigger may also supervise other persons in packing, maintain,or altering any type of parachute for which a rating is held. Now here is the odd one. D. A certificated parachute rigger, without respect to ratings may pack, maintain, or alter the main parachute of a dual parachute pack to be used for intentional jumping." A. blah, blah, seal symbols B. deals w/ reserves, back, chest or whatever C. deals w/ reserves, back, chest, whatever D. deals w/ main parachutes QuoteB. clearly states the rights and priveleges of the senior rigger. D. Seems to just give carte blanch with the main to any rigger. I wonder which takes preference. It just muddies it up even more. When does one handbook supercede another? What authority does the handbook have? Do they have the effect of a FAR, even they don't go through the nprm or get passed br congress. Guidelines, interpretations, and clarifications. Are they really the law? Funny, I got you to dig this deep, but on my written exam for the senior ticket had a question appears as written in the Parachute Rigger Study Guide by Blackmon. 3032. Which of the following states the priveleges of a Senior Parachute Rgger Certificate? The correct anaswer was:3- Pack and maintain (except for major repair)any type of parachute for which he/she is rated. Incorrect was 1- Maintain, pack,inspect, and perform alteration on any type of parachute for which he is rated. Also refer to questions 3040 and 3041 on page 11 of the manual. It may be out of date as well, but those questions appeared on my FAA written exam taken after 1996. Those questions imply that a senior rigger can't replace a line set or alter the lenght of a bridle and the answers are referenced to the relevant FARS. I believe the Senior Rigger's Oral Exam Question Bank has been updated since 1996. Vol I of Poynters was last updated in 1984 and Vol II in 1991. QuoteSo according to what you have found, a SR Rigger can alter but not make major repairs? Where do we draw that line. According to the exam and referenced FARs in the study guide, changing lines is a major repair and cannot be performed by a SR Rigger. Hmmmm... you can change them to alter a canopy, but not to repair it!!! Well it looks as if you have me, the FAA has added a privelege and didn't even bother to notify me or ask my input (NPRM). Maybe it is about time for Mr. Poynter to come out with a Vol. III. I sure have to hand it to you, you dug deep and knew where to dig. I wonder if the FAA test questions will be changed to relect this latest change? D. doesn't say except for major repair, so even major repairs by a rigger on a main are OK w/ the FAA. It took them 10 years to actually update part 105 after deciding it needed updating. Skydiving if not at the bottom, very close to the bottom of the FAA's priorities. Found this: 63. A44 RIG Who may maintain or alter the main parachute of a single harness dual parachute pack to be used for intentional jumping? A. The owner of the parachute. B. The person who is to use the parachute. C. An appropriately certificated parachute rigger. From Version: 021 6/11/2002 Bank: (Parachute Rigger) Airman Knowledge Test Question Bank Hook Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
