Spraying F111 fabric with silicon?

[fudd 0]

Hi
I have a PD190 that I think has aprox 500-600 jumps. I've heard talk about spraying the F111 fabric with silicon to prolonge the life of the fabric. My canopy is almost impossible to land smoothly in low/no wind conditions. Does anyone have any experience with spraying the fabric with silicon. Can I do it myself, or do I need to get a rigger to to it?
Any information would be apreciated, as I can't afford a new canopy yet. Had a couple of HARD landings, but I still haven't hurt myself seriously...
Blue skies...
-Fudd

[bivar 0]

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I have a PD190 that I think has aprox 500-600 jumps.

Have you checked the lines? At 500-600 jumps it could be a good idea to get a new set of lines.
But it cost $$$$

BI

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[ernokaikkonen 0]

I have absolutely no idea how it would work. What I do know is that if you spray the whole canopy(or just the topskin) with silicone, it's probably going to get unbelieveably icky to handle...

An old F111-canopy will not land nicely with a higher than 1.0 wingloading. You might want to consider renting gear until you have the money for a new canopy.

Erno

[petur 0]

Yeah, I would rather buy a new one than considering coating it (Actually, I wouldn't even dream of coating it with anything)

Consider this excerpt from http://www.dropzone.com/gear/articles/WhatgearshouldIget.shtml

"F111 has two major discrepancies. First, F111 begins to wear out at 100 jumps and is pretty much worn out at 500 to 700 jumps. Second, F111 canopies are nearly impossible to sell on the used market."

---
P.
"It Hurts to Admit When You Make Mistakes -
But When They're Big Enough, the Pain Only Lasts a Second."

[petur 0]

Oh, and contact PD before even mentioning it to your rigger

---
P.
"It Hurts to Admit When You Make Mistakes -
But When They're Big Enough, the Pain Only Lasts a Second."

[ernokaikkonen 0]

>"Second, F111 canopies are nearly impossible to sell on the used market."

So not true! I just bought a Fury for 84€! My old Maverick didn't pass the inspection so I had to replace it. I think everyone should have at least one F111-canopy in store in case the need arises for one...

Erno

[SkydiveMonkey 0]

The "need" being in case your sleeping bag gets lost and you need a quick replacement?

____________________
Say no to subliminal messages

[ernokaikkonen 0]

>The "need" being in case your sleeping bag gets lost and you
> need a quick replacement?

Hey! A Fury would work as a sleeping bag! You might get a bit chilly in some sub-100 pocket rocket!

Seriously, if I start practising sky-surfing again, I prefer a large and forgiving canopy for the openings. I also used my old Maverick on my first bird-man jumps, and sure enough, I got some line-twists I probably would have been forced to cutaway on a smaller canopy. And those demo-jumps in small confined areas? The ability to sink-in a canopy in deep brakes can come in handy.

And if I find myself travelling to Norway again(I know, I should by a proper BASE-canopy) it'll come in handy.

Erno

[fudd 0]

The lines doesn't look to bad. The DoM is 89, and it got microlines. I think the might have been changed once allready. The canopy looks to be in mint condition. No repairs, spots, dirt, so it looks to be in almost mint condition. The previous owners have taken good care of it. When looking at it, you wouldnet expect the fabric to be worn out, except there is a large hole cut out in the slider. It opens nice if I roll the front cells a little tight when propacking it. (and it is extremely easy to get all the air out when packing to .)
I've sent a mail do PD and asked about their recomendations. They probably advice me to buy a new Saber. I'm probably going to downsize sometime next summer, so I only need the PD190 for at most 100 more jumps.
Have anyone here actually tried coating a canopy? I'd like to hear how the effect has been.
-fudd

[riggerrob 643]

Coating F-111 canopies with silicone has been tried several times in the past, and it has failed several times in the past. Every few years someone invests in advertisements in major skydiving mafazines offering to re-coat old canopies. The ads only last until a few customers blow up canopies. The basic problem seems to be that taking F-111 patterns and converting them to Zero-P often results in painfully hard openings. I suspect that part of the problem is that F-111 is more forgiving of sloppy packing than Zero-P fabric.
Combine this with a canopy that already has hundreds of jumps worth of wear and tear, and you can expect to tear up the ocaissional canopy.
On the plus side, we do know that spraying F-111 pilotchutes with laundry starch will extend their service lives.

[fudd 0]

As I expected, it may cost too much, or not be a good idea. I'll guess I'll have to have a new slider too. The hole that is cut in my slider is BIG. Usually, if not everyone is doing it, there's a reason. Maybe I'll turn the canopy into the dropzones coolest tent...
I'll ask my rigger if he believes it's worth trying (coating or tenting). Thanks for all the input. Blue skies!
-fudd

There are only 10 types of people in the world. Those who understand binary, and those who don't.

[rainman 0]

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F-111 is more forgiving of sloppy packing than Zero-P fabric

Could you explain what you mean by that? Do you mean you'll get harder openings on a sloppy ZP-packjob than on a sloppy F111 packjob? I must admit that this is the first time I've heard of this!

Blue skies,

Rainman

[cvfd1399 0]

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On the plus side, we do know that spraying F-111 pilotchutes with laundry starch will extend their service lives

Can you go into more detail about that process Ie. What brand, how to apply, one thick coat, a couple light coats, only on the top skin, or the mesh too? Thanks.

[TOT 0]

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The lines doesn't look to bad. The DoM is 89, and it got microlines. I think the might have been changed once allready.

If you goto PD's Website you can download a Line Trim Chart and instructions on how to measure the lines. They may look alright but if they may have shrunk a lot .

[rhys 0]

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F-111 is more forgiving of sloppy packing than Zero-P fabric

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Could you explain what you mean by that? Do you mean you'll get harder openings on a sloppy ZP-packjob than on a sloppy F111 packjob? I must admit that this is the first time I've heard of this!

i have 800 jumps on an f111 maveric 200 i ahve been jumping a heatwave 120 since then. the heatwave can open fast and hard. the maveric can open fast (like instant)but never hard(compared to the heatwave).

f111 lets air thru zp doesn't

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

• Quote

[mjosparky 4]

When ZP is made it is not sprayed with silicone. The silicone is applied and then the material is subjected to pressure and heat. (calendered)

If you spray Lo-Po material with silicone you will have Lo-Po material that is real gooey.

Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[AggieDave 6]

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Does anyone have any experience with spraying the fabric with silicon.

The only time I've ever heard of this was a process called "Lenordizing" invinted by Lenord Moorehead. It gave the canopy a nearly ZP like coating, BUT on the flip side it made the canopies SLAM open.

Its been a few years since I've even seen a Lenordized canopy much less heard about him actually doing it, so I'm not real sure he still does it.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[pywas 0]

I have FC Raider with 1300+ jums but i still can land it safely in nowind. I think you better check the lines and then think of other options...

[FlyingEggplant 0]

I've jumped 2 different PD 190's and both of them opened and landed like crap (loaded at 1:1).

One of them probably had around 800 jumps on it, but new lines. Someone who'd jumped it before the reline said it improved the openings slightly, but didn't change the flare much. That thing opened like a biotch even with a tightly rolled nose.

I'm guessing the other one probably had around 400+ jumps on it and it wasn't a whole lot different. It opened like a ton of bricks and wasn't much fun to land on a no wind day. At least it had fewer holes in it than the other one

From my experience that reline wasn't much help. It was just old and bagged out.

[LiveLifeGoJump 0]

I had the use of a well used PD190, in fact it was well past it's sellby date with a large slit in the slider and pro-packed with the nose pulled right out of the tail and 1 wery loose fold in the tail above & below the exposed nose. Flaring was just a practice manouver as it did nothing. PLF's were the order of the day. Your canopy sounds good in comparison.

Best way to fix it is with plastic (no I don't mean stick plastic on it, I m,ean stick a new one on plactic [Visa or Mastercard etc.).

There are always jumpers who will pay you to pack for them & packing the centre's kit will help. I bought a new Sabre that way.

I was once told by a CCI/DZ owner that if he had so much as broke a fingernail jumping it was time to give up because the sport is not worth hurting yourself for.

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I can't afford a new canopy yet.

Can you afford to kill yourself?

Get out, Land on a green bit. If you get the pull somewhere in between it would help.

[masterrig 1]

One of our jumpers, sprayed his F-111 parachute with tent spray, used to repel water on tents. He claimed that it helped 'tremendously'. I am NOT recommending this 'method' by any means. I thought it was funny. I would want to do some research, prior to 'spraying' anything on my parachute. Check with the manufacturer of your parachute... see what they say. With 500 - 600 jumps, you may need new lines. Especially, since you said they were Spectra line.

Chuck

[peterk 0]

Damn, how broke are you that you are trying to spray something on the parachute that you rely on to save your life?

I remember when I was a little kid, I heard a stand-up comic say something about "budget skydiving- things not to do..."

Be careful...

---------------
Peter
BASE - The Ultimate Victimless Crime

[LiveLifeGoJump 0]

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Damn, how broke are you that you are trying to spray something on the parachute that you rely on to save your life?

It wasn't me (Thread started by Fudd), I was too poor even to buy the silicon!!!

I would NOT spray anything on to a canopy. I wouldn't even wash the container in case that caused a problem.

Jumping the clapped out PD190 was a means to an end, Sabre 170 on order, only alternative was a club Fury or Sabre 210 (harness to big). Since I stopped jumping the PD190 it's never seen the light of day (it was on loan, owner wouldn't sell as that would imply it was jumpable).

Get out, Land on a green bit. If you get the pull somewhere in between it would help.

[JohnRich 4]

I looked into this about 10 years ago. I even had the Military Specification for the solution used to coat canopy fabric. But then never did anything with it myself.

Someone else in the area was known to re-coat old canopies, with his own "special" solution. I knew two people who paid a hundred bucks or so to have this done. In both cases, their canopies blew apart on opening shortly thereafter, resulting in reserve rides. It was the end of that fad...

I wouldn't recommend it. Dig up the money and buy a used canopy in better condition than the one you've got.

[gjhdiver 0]

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Hi

I have a PD190 that I think has aprox 500-600 jumps. I've heard talk about spraying the F111 fabric with silicon to prolonge the life of the fabric.

Heh. We used to spray PAM on our excalibers to keep them flying halfway decent in the late 80's. Made them smell funny, but it did seem to work for about 25 jumps. Mind you, if you factor in the hassle and the cost of trying to cover canopies in this crap, it's cheaper to get a new main.