New Wings rig vs. used Reflex rig

[totalwreck 0]

Hey folks --
In the spirit of trying to get something for nothing, I'm throwing this poll out to you:
For my first rig I am seriously considering these two alternatives:
1. A slightly used (~ 50 jumps) Reflex system with a Sabre 170 Raven reserve. Price = $2000. Adding an AAD would increase this by ~ $900. This rig is available from a rigger at my DZ.
2. A new Wings system with a Hornet 170 and Tempo reserve. This would be purchased as the "Affordable Rig" package through Rigs & Things (www.para-service.com). With AAD this would come to about $3200.
So, whatcha think? Thanks for your input. (I continue to lean on you folks for advice and I very much appreciate it!)

[SkydiveMonkey 0]

New rig !! I've never jumped a wings, but have a Hornet 170 and I love it.
Ook Ook Ook !! - The Librarian

[f1freak 0]

Go used for the first rig. most people want to upgrade before long. spend the extra money on jumpin......
I want to be just like Truman Sparks when I get big...

[prost 0]

I would go for the new rig. If nothing else go for the new container. I personally like the wings better but besides that if you buy new you can get the harness made to fit you exactly. This makes a difference down the road in comfort. As far as the mains go both are good mains. If you do a search you can find plenty of results on tempo and raven reserves to help make up your mind (I will keep from giving an opinion in an attempt to keep from starting a reserve thread all over agian).
There is another choice. You could buy the container new and the canopies used. I am a big fan of this. If you buy right you can usually put a lot of jumps on a container without having to trade it out. I went through 4 canopies with one container. Most people will never wear out a canopy.
William

[Dumpster 0]

Tell ya what- You have the chance to jump the rig that's available at your DZ? Go for it and see how you like it- IMHO you'll be taking the better route - Kinda like test driving a used car- Know what I mean?
---D

[f1freak 0]

Good Point.
I want to be just like Truman Sparks when I get big...

[eml 0]

I tried on several rigs before I bought and personally I though the reflex was the most comfortable, has a pop top reserve with the catapault, and a handy little flap that covers the bridle. but ultimately its what you like best.

[drenaline 0]

Ask a rigger wich reserve system he prefers the reflex or the wings; the sabre is known to smack (if you roll the end cells it can help alot), the hornet I dunno; raven, tempo, both are good reserves, remember to check out if the raven is up to date with the SB (its an extra 100$), also check out if the other used stuff are up to date (bought a container on 325$ had to make the SB 30$ add something to the grommets 80$ and another extra 80$ for the sending cause I live in another country so it all came out for 515$ and had to pay the rigger $$).
If everything is fine, then I don't see why to spend the extra 300$ on something new, when you can buy a new altimeter or a helmet with that money or jump tickets or lotsa beer, etc.
"Life is full of danger, so why be afraid?"
drenaline

[BadDog 0]

I'd take the Wings over the Reflex for two main reasons. The Wings is in production, and I'm not so sure about the Reflex. And I don't like the way the reserve pilot chute cap is exposed on the Reflex. I'd take a used Wings over a new Reflex for the second reason alone. If the choice is between a new Wings and a used Reflex, I'd go with the Wings every time. I have owned both in the past. I still have a Wings.
CorporateLawyerDave aka BadDog

[pilotdave 0]

I'd go with the Wings. Sounds like a really good price, and I've heard lots of great things about Wings containers. I jump a Reflex and like it, but I've heard Wings containers are quite a bit more comfortable and they're really nice looking too. I've also heard too many stories about hard openings on sabres to ever think about buying one myself. You'd save some money with the reflex, but $3200 is not at all unreasonable for a partially new, partially used rig (I assume the canopies are used).
Dave
http://www.skydivingmovies.com

[Kirils 1]

If you buy either one without trying them both out, there will be no regrets. The Reflex is a decent rig (I own 2) and with the price being low for a Hornet....I'd go with the Reflex, if it fits, and trade in the Sabre for a new Hornet. You might want to talk to Roy at Rigs & things about it. When I bought gear from him 4 years ago, my money was tight and he put me into a new Reflex with a used Heatwave main, Tempo reserve and Dolphin and Cypress for an unbeatable price! He will work with you!
Skydiving is not a static excercise with discrete predictability...

[riggerrob 643]

Save a few coins by going with the slightly used rig. Promptly re-invest your savings in jump tickets because currency will keep you alive longer than shiny new gear.
Secondly, I am so tired of listening to rumors about "Sabre slap." Yes, first generation Sabres will slap you if you pack sloppily. Stilettos will bitch-slap you if you pack sloppily. Any Icarus canopy will tweak your neck if you pack sloppily. A SET 400 will break your neck if you pack sloppily enough. What is your point?

[lippy 918]

I don't think I've ever even seen a Wings, but I just bought my first rig, a Reflex, Sabre 170, PDR and Cypress. I have about 10 jumps on my Sabre, all of them while learning to pro-pack, and not a slammer yet (knock on wood). But let me tellya I love my Reflex. The flapplets over the pop-top are great, and there is ZERO main bridle exposure. It's comfy as hell too. Again, I don't know anything about a Wings, so I ain't saying its a bad rig, but the Reflex is a good one. And to repeat what other people have said, the extra 300 bucks will be good to have, for an alti, jumpsuit, beer, or jumps.
My ultimate advise would be to jump both, and see what you like better. Best of luck
Whuffo you sit on that couch all day?
Roger

[skreamer 1]

Yep, I jump a Wings/Hornet/Tempo combo - I got the shit slapped out of me a couple of times (once BenW got smacked when he borrowed my rig). Easy to blame the canopy when it is actually your sloppy packing. I got packing advice from an experienced jumper and haven't had any hard openings since, one or two brisk ones but nothing painful.
I'm still happy with my Wings (160 jumps on it to date), but my first rig was a Vector 1/Cruiselite '220/Swift which cost a total of $900 (plus $900 for Cypres). So maybe you are better off buying second hand now and saving cash for jump tickets.
Will
PS BTW I bought my rig from Roy and will definitely buy from him in future again, great prices, great service! "Look before you jump, don't die until you're dead"

[MiataDRM 0]

I have a Wings container & a hornet which I bought new to replace my used reflex. The wings is a much better container, plus it will be brand new & custom made to your size and choice of colors. Plus, the hornet packs much smaller compared to other canopies...my wings container fits my hornet 170 perfectly, but will only fit a 150 from any other canopy manufacturer. If you have any questions, feel free to email me (MiataDMRM@aol.com). Also, if you call sunrise riggind, ask for Heather...she was a lot of help and their customer service is top notch.
When I got mine, Roy included a free RSL, assembly & pack job before mailing it to me.
**I'm a Pschydiver!
Majdi

[billvon 3,090]

>And I don't like the way the reserve pilot chute cap is exposed on the Reflex.
I'm not sure I understand - the Wings reserve PC _is_ exposed. It's the round thing on the top of the reserve. If you dig beneath the reserve PC cap with your finger you will find the reserve PC material, just as you would on a Reflex. (Javelin is similar.) If you want a completely covered reserve PC, something like a Talon or Vector might be a better choice.
Personally, I don't like the way the reserve pins are exposed on most rigs. I can check my own main pin on my reflex, and I can be sure nothing has messed with my reserve pin, since it's against my back.and completely inaccessible.
-bill von

[skybytch 273]

Personally, I loved my Reflex. Very comfortable, bomb proof riser coverage and main flap and I never had a problem with the reserve poptop. If it's your rigger selling it it's likely he knows how to pack them too. Replacement parts are readily available from Bomber Manufacturing so no worries there.
If it is possible for you to put a few jumps on the rig before putting down the cash and if the harness fits you well, I'd recommend buying that rig along with a used Cypres (you can find 4-5 year old units for around US$500-$600).
My only caveat would the Raven - if it's a Dash M make sure it either is not subject to or has had the service bulletin mod taken care of; if it's a standard Raven make sure that you won't be loading it above about 1.1:1.
That is a reasonable price for that rig, btw...
pull & flare,
lisa
"Try not. Do or do not. There is no try." - Yoda sez

[judedre 0]

i say wings i tried reflex coupla times not as comfy as my wings i have dash m in there never had to use it yet wings is supercomfy modern awesome customer service sall i gota say....
http://www.tumblefuqs.com

[BadDog 0]

The pilot chute cap on the Wings, Javelin, and Dolphin are "exposed" on the sides, but not on the top or bottom (if you use the alternative closing procedure for the Dolphin) the way the Reflex is (unless you have the added flap on the top of the Reflex, in which case my earlier comments may not apply).
CorporateLawyerDave aka BadDog

[ChromeBoy 0]

Go with the new rig from Roy at Rigs and Things. That way you will have a new container and you won't have to worry about it later and you can always change your main when you want to.