flyhy 0 #1 May 21, 2002 I'm going to buy my first own canopy...Have done 35 of my 60 jumps on a triathalon. I'd like to get a safire but it's hard to get it second hand (in the right size). Now I've got the choice between a PD and a stiletto... I have little landing (flaring) problems so a stiletto could be a bit too early for me. But I'd maybe get bored of the PD...What do you expert people think about that?! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jdhill 0 #2 May 21, 2002 60 jumps is way too early for a stiletto, and anyone who would sell one to you is being irresponsible (really does not matter what the size is). You may be the greatest canopy prodigy since JC, but it is still too early for an elliptical. If you can't get a Sabre (or similar canopy) go with the PD (appropriately sized).Don't be in a hurry to become a statistic.http://www.aerialfusion.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhino 0 #3 May 21, 2002 What is your experience level..Stick with a Triathlon for a while.. Learn to fly before you learn to race.. Blue Skies ..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhino 0 #4 May 21, 2002 Oops.. 60 jumps.. A Stiletto??Better get life insurance...STICK WITH A TRIATHLON... Blue Skies ..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skybytch 273 #5 May 21, 2002 >I have little landing (flaring) problems so a stiletto could be a bit too early for me.Understatement. Don't get any elliptical canopy right now if you aren't able to land a Triathlon standing up every time in all conditions. >But I'd maybe get bored of the PD...So? What's wrong with a "boring" canopy? I fly one (Spectre loaded at 1.0:1), and this weekend I was damn glad I chose it - it landed me just fine with two broken lines in less than perfect wind conditions and with less than 100% of my brain flying with me. Think about worst case scenarios when choosing your first main canopy (type and size) - survival in a bad situation is much more likely under a so-called "boring" canopy at a so-called "boring" wingloading, especially if you don't have a lot of experience yet. pull & flare,lisaIf I can't have everything, well, then just give me a taste... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Spy38W 0 #6 May 21, 2002 QuoteI have little landing (flaring) problems so a stiletto could be a bit too early for me. But I'd maybe get bored of the PD...It's better to get bored under the PD than hurt under a Stiletto.In all honesty, I'm still a young newbie jumper under a fairly big square, and I'm having a blast. When I got really comfortable with normal landings I started playing with risers gradually (no hook turns for me thankyouverymuch). It's pretty fun to surprise people with what you can do on a bigger more docile canopy. How aggressively you fly the canopy can contribute to how quickly you get bored with it. I've jumped equal sized ellipticals a few times and had great landings under them, but at the same time don't think I am ready for one yet. Sure it turned out well, and I'm pretty sure I could probably learn to fly it without too many problems, but I still have a lot to learn, and the elliptical would amplify the mistakes I *will* make and make it more probable that I would hurt myself.But that's just my opinion. It's hard to fight downsize-itis--Give them a sip of the darkside, and they just thirst for more. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kirils 1 #7 May 21, 2002 I will play Devil's advocate here. I have seen jumpers with less than 100 jumps fly a lightly loaded Stiletto without any problems. With a 0.8- 1.2 loading I don't see any problems with the Stiletto. My partner started off with a Heatwave (a similar canopy) loaded at 0.8, and having 15 jumps under her belt. If you are edumacated about the inherent problems of the elipitical design, I believe the Stiletto can be flown by a novice. What I'm saying does not apply to other elipticals. Skydiving is not a static excercise with discrete predictability... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jdhill 0 #8 May 21, 2002 The Stiletto minimum recommended wing loading for intermediate canopy pilot is 0.8:1. I personnaly do not consider 60 jumps intermediate, particularlly if there are other landing issues (as has been indicated)... maybe a novice can fly one, but should they?http://www.aerialfusion.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jumperpaula 0 #9 May 21, 2002 Quote ...and the elliptical would amplify the mistakes I *will* make and make it more probable that I would hurt myself.. I had over 400 jumps before I would even ENTERTAIN the thought of jumping an ellipical...and Im still waiting for that mistake I *WILL* make and learning on every single jump so I will know enough NOT to hurt myself. GO on GO, and Present Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AndyMan 7 #10 May 21, 2002 If you want to buy a Safire, Skydive Chicago has a lot of them for sale. Check it out here:http://www.skydivechicago.com/ActiveWear/canopies.htmStiletto's are very unstable at light wingloadings. They dont' handle turbulence at all. I do not recomend anyone buy a stiletto until they're able to properly load it.Another good choice might be the Sabre2, but these are nearly imposible to find used.If you're on a budget, check out the Hornet from PISA. You can get one for about $800 because of the exchange rate.ICQ: 5578907MSN Messenger: andrewdmetcalfe at hotmail dot com AIM: andrewdmetcalfeYahoo IM: ametcalf_1999 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jessica 0 #11 May 21, 2002 Keep looking around. A Stiletto is just crazy talk, and you might as well get a ZP canopy instead of a PD. I jump an F-111 PD canopy, and the flare sucks and it's more or less worthless as far as resale value goes. I bet if you try, you can find a nice docile 9-cell ZP. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
drenaline 0 #12 May 22, 2002 You can also search for a 7-cell ZP. Nice openings."Life is full of danger, so why be afraid?"drenaline Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rgoper 0 #13 May 22, 2002 7 cell zp canopies resale suck, i've owned three, sold them at less than half of what i paid for them. they "sink" in on landing, then you have to transition back to "gliding" in with a 9 cell when you go back, and you will go back. Richard"Gravity Is My Friend" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skybytch 273 #14 May 22, 2002 Quotethey "sink" in on landing, then you have to transition back to "gliding" in with a 9 cell when you go back, and you will go back.Not neccessarily. I've gone from 7 cell F111 to 9 cell F111 to 9 cell ZP and back to 7 cell ZP. I prefer the landings of a seven cell - there are still some of us out there who have no desire to turf surf; there will always be a market for 7 cell ZP canopies. I've found that Spectres have the same resale value as Sabres do....pull & flare,lisa"Try not. Do or do not. There is no try." - Yoda sez Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rgoper 0 #15 May 22, 2002 maybe i should've added the phrase "in my experience" 7 cell resale isn't as high as 9 cell. Richard"Gravity Is My Friend" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
drenaline 0 #16 May 22, 2002 Quotesold them at less than half of what i paid for themThats why 7 cell zp canopies for first canopy are a good choice for me, you can find them in very good condition for low prices. Me have no money, always thinking cheap. "Life is full of danger, so why be afraid?"drenaline Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AndyMan 7 #17 May 22, 2002 QuoteI've found that Spectres have the same resale value as Sabres do....I did very well when I sold my triathlon... _AmICQ: 5578907MSN Messenger: andrewdmetcalfe at hotmail dot com AIM: andrewdmetcalfeYahoo IM: ametcalf_1999 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhino 0 #18 May 22, 2002 Me 2.. Blue Skies ..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RozeAY 0 #19 May 22, 2002 Keep looking around on dropzone.com and enclave.com, even the newsgroup. Also contact dealers such as square1. They carry several used canopies. You can more than likely find a safire in your size. BTW, what size canopy are you looking for? Wing-loading? Exit-weight? Also, you could look into Sabres, Sabre2s, Spectres, or another Triathalon. I flew a Safire while going through AFF and bought a Sabre for my first canopy. I flew another smaller safire after that before I went elliptical. Both are great canopies, especially for low jump numbers. They are forgiving yet you can do enough with them to learn how to fly. Good luck! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shark 0 #20 May 22, 2002 Consult your local instructor and get some recommendations on which canopies do DEMO. Don't get caught up in that "lightly" loaded Stilleto debate.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
