What do you find most important

[Unisyn 0]

Since it was pointed out that skydivers have influenced the manufacturers toward less safe designs. I.E (mini risers) We, at Mirage Systems, were curious what the jumpers of dropzone.com are interested in. Since all the the manfacturers claim to make a safe container and it is the general opinion that they do, what are your motivation to buy a new rig.

What feature do you find most important in purchasing a container?
Flap Design
Harness Design
Container Size
Available Options
Price
other

[jdhill 0]

Its a combination of all these things... pin protection, flaps that stay closed when they are suposed to, quality materials and contruction, comfort... price is important too, but it comes after the other things have made the grade (ie if everything else is equal then price will make the decision, if all other things are not equal, I don't have a problem paying a little more).
Josh
http://www.aerialfusion.com

[skybytch 273]

For me it's price and delivery time. From what I've seen, pretty much every rig on the market today has a comfortable harness, secure flaps and good bridle protection, which are the other factors that would influence my buying decision.
pull & flare,
lisa
---
On the other hand...you have different fingers

[PhreeZone 20]

In addition to just flap protection I look at riser coverage and possible down sizing ability of the container. It takes more then one of the elements you have listed to make me intersted in a container. A rig can have a great flap, great harness but if I can't downsize mains... its not going to get my money. If the rig will downsize, but if I put too small of a main in the flap protection goes to hell... that ones out. I can name at least one thing I don't like on every rig on the market today. Every rig has its pluses and some have more then others... but I'm yet to see a design that meets every design requirement that I'd like to have. Till then I guess i need to settle for the best I can get.
I'd love to start a thread about the dislikes of every rig... but it will turn into a flamefest in under 3 posts...
If once you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny, consume you it will....

[rgoper 0]

all of the above. but delivery time has been my pet peeve on everything so far.
Richard
"Gravity Is My Friend"

[Engovatov 0]

Bulletproof quality - stitching, choice of materials, hardware. I just like all my gear to feel and perform very, very solid - over engineered in a sense. From your list - I voted flaps - that what differentiated it for me..
Not the lightest, not the flashiest..
Mirage looked like the best choice to me - got one.. Will buy another (well, will take a look at Vector as well)..
All else being equal - I would really like to be able to put a widest range possible of main canopies in it.. ( - like having a adjustible/second D-bag and a second position for main closing loop on main flap and a split bottom - a-la in a wingsuit deployment modification??)
Pet peeve - leg hardware (mine was DOM March 2001) - I have seen a lot of better buckle designs in climbing harnesses.
Actually - is it possible to make a climbing harness style container? - with wide belt in lumbar region and loops - I have landed much more violent then the opening shock fall onto my Cadillac Big Wall and can sit in it for hours with comfort - something that a 5 min canopy flight is more troublesome at...
Also - having a swami belt, instead of a chest strap will eliminate problems with cutaway/reserve handles rolling under and with clothing getting over them.
One also can tighten it up - something you can not do with your chest strap, fixing container (attached to the swami belt were the haul loop goes behind) in place much tighter then the current system does..
I have seen such designs on a full body rescue harnesses, caving harnesses - just the main load attachment point will be not in front, but more to the sides...
And definitely take look on how Misty Mountain and Petzl do their belts and loops. Verry comfy..

[SkydiveMonkey 0]

All of the above, but price is always a big factor.
boobies - the cause of, and solution to, all of lifes problems

[nacmacfeegle 0]

An often overlooked factor here would be peer pressure, and brand loyalty. We've all been to predominantly Javelin, or Mirage, or Vector DZs. Is it surprising if people just want to fit in?
A frequently asked newbie question is which container? How many jumpers instantly reply "product X I have one and love it wouldn't jump anything else". Skydivers, in my experience, are fiercely loyal to the equipment they jump regardless of perceived advantages of brand 'x' over brand 'y'. They will staunchly defend their equipment choice if asked in all innocence by a newbie.
In my instance, I like dealing with my friends, I know Derro, so I use Javelin. I guess you could call it marketing and customer service. And its a whole easier to swear at someone you actually know.......should I ever have to, of course.
Also consider national pride, in the UK its very common to see Teardrop Classics, and Superflys. PdF have a similar stronghold on a lot of French Dzs.
Cya
D

[AggieDave 6]

Price is a very big factor.
Even with my student loans, there is no way I could afford one of your rigs, even though I like them.
Example, prices as listed from Square 1.com:
Mirage with options wanted: $2030
Wings with options wanted: $1183
Those are using the same options selected on both containers. That nearly $900 would buy a decent used canopy, or a good reserve. Is the Wings container as good as the Mirage? Well, every thing I've seen about both containers would lead me to believe yes.
A human cannonball, I rise above it all
Up higher then a trapeze, I can fly

[freeflycracker 0]

All of the above. Also ability to downsize. alot of us are going through canopies pretty fast and I dont want to buy a new container every year. Another very important factor for me was service after the sale. How easy are they to get along with if there is a problem or when repairs are needed. I jump a Mirage and would CONSIDER it as my first choice for my next container.

[MrHixxx 0]

I guess I don't follow the opinion that everyone has an equally safe container.
I look at the reserve deployment system and the overall pin and bridle protection for the reserve and main.
-Jon
"Sous ma tub, Dr. Suess ma tub"

[bmcd308 0]

Let's have the flamefest. Hell, start a new thread if you think it is appropriate, but I think that if we all bitch some, maybe folks will listen. I'll start by bitching about every container design that is essentially a Javelin knockoff but failed to copy Javelin's bridle protection flap. Go brand by brand ... I'm curious to hear what you think.
BMcD...

[skybytch 273]

Quote

Let's have the flamefest.

Let's not. Flaming isn't tolerated here.
pull & flare,
lisa
---
On the other hand...you have different fingers

[jdhill 0]

If I remember correctly, the Javelin's bridle protection flap was added in 1999 model year in response to Mirage's overall design... it still looks like it was added not integrated into the design process.
http://www.aerialfusion.com

[skycat 0]

well maybe not a flamefest, but it would be nice to be able to say what you don't like about a container in hopes that it is improved. Not knocking a product, but saying what would be on your wish list.
Like currently I don't like the way the side flaps on the javalins don't don't really cover the bottom flap on larger Javalins very well and you can even see D-bag sometimes, or the pin protection.
You know stuff like that.

[weid14 0]

Engineering details -- overall pin/bridle/riser protection, reserve pilot chute strength, hardware type and design (i.e. ends on cut away housings are they mil spec, how are they attatched etc), foam type used, construction, cut away pillow design, soft reserve rip cord design.... that sort of thing... that and how sexy it is.... but Bill, we already had this conversation my vote is "other" I guess.

[MrHixxx 0]

Let's have the flamefest. Hell, start a new thread if you think it is appropriate, but I think that if we all bitch some, maybe folks will listen. I'll start by bitching about every container design that is essentially a Javelin knockoff but failed to copy Javelin's bridle protection flap. Go brand by brand ... I'm curious to hear what you think.
BMcD...
I think you are not paying attention to the rigs around you very closely...
"Sous ma tub, Dr. Suess ma tub"

[AggieDave 6]

Quote

I'll start by bitching about every container design that is essentially a Javelin knockoff but failed to copy Javelin's bridle protection flap.

]
Look at the picture I attatched, it is me in a sit fly, jumping a borrowed Javelin. In my experience, the Javelin has not impressed me at all. Modern containers like the Mirage and Wings and Vector III have impressed me and most every person I have talked to about them.
<----------------
A human cannonball, I rise above it all
Up higher then a trapeze, I can fly

[weid14 0]

So, Mr BMCD..... are you complaining specifically about the Javelin knock offs (i.e. look alikes), or are you saying all rigs were copies of Javelin. BTW the Javelin bridle protection was added recently.
I think Bill's original question was what do you look for in a container when you buy it? I guess you look for Javelin inspired flappage?

[billo 0]

i'm surprised i haven't seen more people mention manufacturer reliability or customer satisfaction. or comfort? i would most want to go to a manufacturer that knew how to treat the customers right and then can back up the service with a product that is comfortable and well priced.
if anything i'd say it's most important to look past the hyped ads and listen to people who own the rigs and deal with the manufacturer on a first hand basis. actions or stories can tell alot more about a rig and it's manufacturer than any advertisement.

[drenaline 0]

Quote

actions or stories can tell alot more about a rig and it's manufacturer than any advertisement.

When you live in a country that has only 20 skydivers the best thing to do before buying a rig is to read the stories on the gear forums and read the reviews. Thats how I bought my stuff, blind folded, knowing only what the dropzone.com reviews said and what the others skydivers knew, no demo no nothing, just pure trust and it worked, got myself a cheap dolphin and a great spectre.
"Life is full of danger, so why be afraid?"
drenaline

[polarbear 1]

There are so many factors...reputation, workmanship, aesthetics, ease of use/packing, price, customer service, durability, etc.
Since you specifically mentioned safety, I'll elaborate on that. I look at what TSO category the container is under, what materials it is made from, how well it is made (stiching, grommet seating, etc.), pin/bridle/riser protection, correctly made 3-rings, how the reserve (and specifically the reserve pc) is packed. Overall, when I talk to the company, I look for an attitude that they are genuinely interested in providing ME with a safe conatiner, and I shy away from a situation where I detect bullshit.

[FallinWoman 1]

When I made my decision (to buy a Mirage) I asked owners of several rigs what they DIDN'T like about their containers. I spoke to loyal Vector 3, newer Jav and Mirage owners. I did not get to speak to VooDoo or Wings owners. The people I spoke to had fewer serious safety issues with the Mirage than the others, so that is what I went with.
Plus they look cool as hell!!
Anne

[crazy 0]

Quote

Since all the the manfacturers claim to make a safe container and it is the general opinion that they do

Right, most (if not all) modern containers are safe. But this doesn't mean that all are perceived equally safe by everybody. On some "detail", there are still some rigs one step behind perfection (pin or bridle protection is an example). These are out of the competition imo.

Quote

what are your motivation to buy a new rig.

It's a trade off between many things: meeting my requirements, comfort, ease of packing and maintainance, customers service, price, bulk and esthetics. In this order.
So, i can't vote for your poll because each element is relevant to several categories. For instance, bad flap design, can be a safety issue, an increase in bulk, an hasle to pack and maintain or ugly. If it's just ugly it is not really important, if it is a safety issue, then the container is not on my list. Container size is a safety issue if the smallest that i can get (with my chosen reserve size) is 3 sizes bigger than my main. For the options, i don't give a shit to embroidery but hip rings are important for my comfort.
There are a few other important elements: the customer services, the information provided and the credibility of the company.
b1s
Come

[bmcd308 0]

I guess I was hoping that the "flamefest" would be limited to discussion of what people do not like about various designs. I didn't mean to incite a net-riot or anything. Sorry.