shibu 1 #1 July 25, 2012 Age: 24 Sex: Male Time in Sport: Approximately two months Total Number of Jumps: Eight Skydives Within the Last 12 Months: Eight Cause of Death: Hard impact following low deployment of the main parachute Why wasn't this a AAD save? According to the USPA, "Investigators inspected the harness and container and found that the automatic activation device (AAD) had activated its cutter but that it had not cut the reserve closing loop. Investigators found the loop intact, still installed in the bottom of the container beside the cutter unit. Investigators concluded that the reserve closing loop had not been routed through the cutter and that this error presumably occurred when the AAD was installed in the container during the previous repack...." Scary stuff. Honestly when I was on jump 8, I was not checking to make sure everything was routed properly to my reserve... although I think/hope my instructor did. http://www.uspa.org/USPAMembers/Safety/AccidentReports/tabid/81/ctl/Detail/mid/785/Default.aspx?xmdata=eC4j3PSbzsdrbhcQvoQtgztDMpzy5POySvcDy7Ao9SU4A2z5fmLFChRPE8%2b%2bkX9o%2foaGXxZHtpYv0U%2fHsKP48w%3d%3d Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
obelixtim 150 #2 July 25, 2012 Rigging error that would not be picked up unless the container was opened. I´m sure the rigger concerned will be having sleepless nights over it. Nevertheless, it doesn´t negate the fact that an AAD is a backup device only and should never be relied on. The best automatic opener is the jumper himself. As has been said, an AAD save should often be regarded as a bounce that didn´t happen. Skydiving is literally about taking your life in your own hands....once out the door you are responsible for saving yourself. Still a tragic event, for all concerned.My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GLIDEANGLE 1 #3 July 25, 2012 Quote Scary stuff. Honestly when I was on jump 8, I was not checking to make sure everything was routed properly to my reserve... although I think/hope my And exactly how do you check the routing of your reserve closing loop through the cutter now?The choices we make have consequences, for us & for others! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
piisfish 140 #4 July 25, 2012 Quote Scary stuff. Honestly when I was on jump 8, I was not checking to make sure everything was routed properly to my reserve... although I think/hope my instructor did. how do you expect your instructor to check if the reserve loop is properly routed through the cutter ? In most cases yuo simply can not do that....scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
theonlyski 8 #5 July 25, 2012 Quote Quote Scary stuff. Honestly when I was on jump 8, I was not checking to make sure everything was routed properly to my reserve... although I think/hope my instructor did. how do you expect your instructor to check if the reserve loop is properly routed through the cutter ? In most cases you simply can not do that.... Pop it, check it (depending on the rig it may still be in the cutter), close it and seal it. That'll never happen and honestly, I'm glad... more hands in the pot = more chances for errors."I may be a dirty pirate hooker...but I'm not about to go stand on the corner." iluvtofly DPH -7, TDS 578, Muff 5153, SCR 14890 I'm an asshole, and I approve this message Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pchapman 279 #6 July 25, 2012 Just for reference: This would refer to the "Fatality at Archway Skydiving Center" incident from 2010. http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=4137658 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shibu 1 #7 July 25, 2012 Quote Rigging error that would not be picked up unless the container was opened. I´m sure the rigger concerned will be having sleepless nights over it. Nevertheless, it doesn´t negate the fact that an AAD is a backup device only and should never be relied on. The best automatic opener is the jumper himself. As has been said, an AAD save should often be regarded as a bounce that didn´t happen. Skydiving is literally about taking your life in your own hands....once out the door you are responsible for saving yourself. Still a tragic event, for all concerned. Agreed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shibu 1 #8 July 25, 2012 QuoteQuote Scary stuff. Honestly when I was on jump 8, I was not checking to make sure everything was routed properly to my reserve... although I think/hope my And exactly how do you check the routing of your reserve closing loop through the cutter now? Good point obelixtim & glideangle. I do a better gear check now but wouldn't have picked up on this. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,583 #9 July 25, 2012 Nobody would pick up on this until the reserve repack. That doesn't change the fact that the opening of the reserve by the jumper wasn't in the least impeded. Used to be that if you jumped out of an airplane, you were dead unless you did something. Of course, we did have more no-pull fatalities in those days. But until the 2000's, the only jumps I ever had an AAD on were my first and second freefalls. Wendy P.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fcajump 164 #10 July 25, 2012 QuoteQuote Scary stuff. Honestly when I was on jump 8, I was not checking to make sure everything was routed properly to my reserve... although I think/hope my And exactly how do you check the routing of your reserve closing loop through the cutter now? There are a couple rigs where you can see the closing loop going through (or not) the cutter. (Racer and Reflex, maybe others...) I do not propose that this is intentional in their design, but a convenient side benefit. But it is true that for most rigs, you have to trust you rigger with regard to how he puts stuff in there... But isn't that what you do with the whole reserve inspection/repack? You trust his seal/signature/word that it is done correctly. If you want to see what he does, ask to (quietly) watch. Then you will know more and be able to see the loop going through the cutter for yourself. JWAlways remember that some clouds are harder than others... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nigel99 612 #11 July 26, 2012 QuoteQuoteQuote Scary stuff. Honestly when I was on jump 8, I was not checking to make sure everything was routed properly to my reserve... although I think/hope my And exactly how do you check the routing of your reserve closing loop through the cutter now? Good point obelixtim & glideangle. I do a better gear check now but wouldn't have picked up on this. Honestly for someone with 70 jumps you are showing a serious lack of knowledge on 'what' a gear check can pick up, and also how a reserve is assembled. Do yourself a favour and watch a reserve repack. (Of course it may be poor communication over the internet and you do know your gear)Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shibu 1 #12 July 30, 2012 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuote Scary stuff. Honestly when I was on jump 8, I was not checking to make sure everything was routed properly to my reserve... although I think/hope my And exactly how do you check the routing of your reserve closing loop through the cutter now? Good point obelixtim & glideangle. I do a better gear check now but wouldn't have picked up on this. Honestly for someone with 70 jumps you are showing a serious lack of knowledge on 'what' a gear check can pick up, and also how a reserve is assembled. Do yourself a favour and watch a reserve repack. (Of course it may be poor communication over the internet and you do know your gear) Part of it may be internet communication but you are right. I am going to watch a reserve re-pack. Not that it is an excuse, but my 71 jumps were ~20 with a 2 yr layoff, then ~20 jumps with a 4 yr layoff. Then I had 31 jumps last year. I don't want to let the long layoffs happen again & should be jumping again by this week. Thanks. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
theonlyski 8 #13 July 30, 2012 QuoteI am going to watch a reserve re-pack. AWESOME! You'll learn more than many people know about their gear. Make sure you coordinate with the rigger before you plan on watching it. It really sucks for someone to bring their rig and ask to watch me repack it, when I hadn't planned on packing it right away. Also, make sure you're able to stay awake thru it, I've let 3 people watch, one completely passed out, the other two were pretty close to it. It's not the most exciting part of many peoples days."I may be a dirty pirate hooker...but I'm not about to go stand on the corner." iluvtofly DPH -7, TDS 578, Muff 5153, SCR 14890 I'm an asshole, and I approve this message Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shibu 1 #14 July 30, 2012 Thanks for the tips. I'll arrange it in advance & have a redbull. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gregpso 1 #15 August 5, 2012 There are so many ways to bounce in this sport that most starting out do not think off. its amazing the fatality rate is so low !! Pilot diving and hitting you in freefall ... You pay a senior packer to pack a reserve but they mis route the aad cutter. Your on a student landing and some idiot hot shot crashes into you.. etc etc. When I first started I thought what if the canopy does not open ? (and that was the only way you could go in) I did not believe some one who told me a few years ago greg you can do everything right and still die.... I get it now !I tend to be a bit different. enjoyed my time in the sport or is it an industry these days ?? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites