Samurai vs Vengence

[PhreeZone 20]

I'm looking for opinions of people who have flown both a Samurai and a Vengence. I'm looking at loading it at about 1.4 if I go for the 136 like I'm planning on getting.
I'm specifically looking for open differences and differences on recovery arc and other things. I'm fairly informed about most the major things about these canopies, but I'm looking for the little differences. Any input would be nice. Jedei owners can chime in too if you have jumped a Jedei and a Vengence.
I want to touch the sky, I want to fly so high ~ Sonique

[freefallin14 0]

Why not another Cobalt? Don't you love yours? Just curious as to why you would be switching.
Bret

[PhreeZone 20]

I really like my Cobalt a lot, I'm just exploring all options before I drop a big chunk of change on a new custom canopy. I know lots about the Cobalt and am just looking to make sure that my next canopy is exactly what I want it to be.
I want to touch the sky, I want to fly so high ~ Sonique

[Zennie 0]

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Jedei owners can chime in too if you have jumped a Jedei and a Vengence.

Was that a hint?
I've flown all three... Jedei, Vengeance & Cobalt in the 135 class (loaded about 1.4). I have the most jumps on the Jedei, obviously. I demoe'd the Cobalt for two weeks, about 10 jumps. And I have 2 jumps on a Vengeance.
Unfortunately, the brakes were set a little short on the Cobalt demo so I really can't speak too much on riser carves. The canopy opened and flew very nice, though I had to steer the openings. I always felt in control, but I could also zip it around if I wanted to. Flare was very smooth. Very good with braked turns, not divey.
The Vengeance also had nice openings, and like the Cobalt, I generally had to steer it. Toggles were controlled and not twitchy, but very responsive. Front riser carves generated lots of speed. Braked turns were divey, it would take some practice before you'd want to try it close to the ground as an avoidance maneuver. Flare was huge. Very easy to land.
The Jedei opens very slow & smooth, but has serious, serious oversteer on the riser inputs while the brakes are stowed. I usually let it find the heading it wants, and then do a few short taps on the risers to get it to take a heading. Like the Vengeance, the Jedei will generate serious speed on front riser carves. The recovery arc is pretty long. I'll eat up around 500 feet doing a really hard 180. Toggle turns are snappy (but not "twitchy") but eat up lots of altitude. Braked turns are fairly controlled. The flare has taken quite a bit of getting used to, because the majority of the power is deep in the stroke. It's probably the hardest to land of the three canopies, but boy does it surf when you hit it right.
Both airlocked canopies are very solid in the wind. I've jumped the Jedei on several gusty days and hardly felt a bump. I jumped the Vengeance on a windy day as well (welcome to Houston) and it was equally solid. They can be a pain to gather up on windy days though.
"Zero Tolerance: the politically correct term for zero thought, zero common sense."

[Kirils 1]

I own Jedei and have demo'd a Vengence. (135 class) They are different birds... In comparision the Vengence is a bit sluggish and slow turning but feels more "solid" in flight and wind gusts. (it may have been better at higher loading) The flare is stronger and more uniform than the Jedei.
The Vengence had a long snivel on opening. There were problems a couple times with end cell closure only on one side, causing a spin. (but my packing sucks and may be a factor) I must say I like the Jedei openings better. I understand there were a lot of changes being made in design
during the marketing with the Jedei when Brian was building them.
The new Samuari is made by PD for Brian and you can be assured the design is solid and the quality is superior. Hey, jump them both and let us know what YOU think!!

Skydiving is not a static excercise with discrete predictability...

[Aviatrr 0]

The Samurai is an awesome canopy, and I would highly recommend it over the Vengeance.. I have less than 10 jumps on a Vengeance, but not a single one was less than 90 degrees off heading(most were more), and they all surged/dove on opening.. I had to grab the rear risers as soon as they were out to keep the openings reasonable.. Once open, it flies fine.....solid feel, good flare, fairly long recovery arc..
The Samurai had pretty squirrely openings, but not unmanageable.. Most of the jumps I put on the Samurai resulted in openings within 30 degrees, and very soft.. You definitely need to know how to steer a canopy through opening via harness inputs.. Very solid in turbulence, extremely responsive(tight spirals with just harness shifts are easy), dives like crazy(but you can plane it out easily by bumping the toggles or rear risers), but the bottom end lift leaves a little to be desired.. You will probably end up running or sliding out landings in low/no wind conditions.. Be sure you demo the Samurai in the size you are considering - you may find that you want to step up a size.. This canopy flies small, IMO..
If you want a very high performance swoop machine, go with the Samurai.......if you want opening issues, go with the Vengeance.. Mike

[PhreeZone 20]

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This canopy flies small, IMO..

THats exactly the type info I wanted. I was initally thinking going from the Cobalt 150 to a Samurai 136, but am rethinking the downsize. The Cobalt flies "big" so that would feel like a huge step. Im calling Brian in the morning asking his opinion. Thanks for the input!
Murphy's Laws of Love - If the person isn't taken, there's a reason for that...

[mountainman 0]

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Im calling Brian in the morning asking his opinion.

Don't you love that you can do stuff like this? I know that I can't call Bill Gates when I have OS issues. You gotta love this sport.
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