crossfire - same canopy?

[AggieDave 6]

Although it's not really small potatoes for them, since they [NASA] use parachutes in quite a few applications and could use the knowledged learn on them.
Success is how high you bounce when you hit bottom.-General George Patton-

[prost 0]

not parachutes in general, but a specific sport parachute. For them to launch a study on a particular sport parachute without outside input is unbelievable.
William

[SBS 0]

"BTW, was recently in the market for a new parachute and just because
of the uncertainty, the Crossfire was not considered, nor were any of
the Icarus canopies. Sorry, I can't afford the possibility of an equipment
or company problem down the line. Got to go with the Big Boys who I
know will be there down the road. "
I can understand the concern, but still find it sad that good canopies can be ruled out by speculation. There are a handful of people that really understand the issue that the Crossfires had, and what caused them...as such, I would say that if people were completely aware, even if they still would not purchase an Icarus canopy, it would be far better to have made an informed decision. I come across people all the time who will make a comment under their breath about the Crossfire or Icarus, and not be able to explain why they think that way...that is how rumors are spread; people making negative speculations (competitor or not) are the ones who start them. Dan, I appreciate the fact that you deleted the negative portion of the statement, but the fact is that it was already said. I hope that you will consider that in the future, rather than helping start biased rumors which may or may not be entirely true.
"Atair has as good or if not better service then PD. I had called PD asking for a demo canopy and told I
would be placed on the waiting list, but it could be up to 4 months before I might get it, or I might
get it in 3 weeks. Atair let me specify with in 2 weeks of when my Ideal time was and tried to get it
to me on those dates. Atair even shipped me a new, never jumped canopy just to make sure that I
had it in time for a Christams trip. By getting me that Demo, Atair got 2 sales, mine in a few weeks
and one of the guys who borrowed it from me. Dan is the only one who posts here, but I've seen John LeBlanc, Brian Germain and Bill Booth all post on Rec. and most the time they are pointing out a flaw in something other then their own product. Simon from Icuras I thought was even on here too."
PD is the largest canopy manufacturer in the world, with a demo fleet of hundreds of canopies...they also have hundreds of people calling them to get demos. I have always had good experience with PD when getting demos, both for myself in the past, as well as for customers more recently. From my experience, they will always do their best to get you a canopy when you request it (especially if you give them plenty of notice). They do not like being this backed up in their demo program, but have to draw the line somewhere...they can't just produce brand new canopies to send out to people, it would be far too expensive...they have to start a waiting list. The reason that it may be 4 months, or may be 3 weeks, is that sometimes before people get their demos, they decide to purchase a canopy, which is perfectly understandable.
I cannot speculate on Atair and their demo program (especially after what I said above about speculation and rumors). What I can say, though, is that just because someone can deliver a demo quickly, does not mean superior service. It could mean that they just happened not to have demand for that specific canopy at that specific time. Maybe they invested money in their demo program and have a surplus of canopies right now, and if they are ever as large as PD, they will have a 4 month long waiting list as well. I'm not saying that this is the case, just that there are an infinite number of possibilities as to why they took care of you. I also know people who have not been taken care of by Atair, as well as those who are dissatisfied with every other manufacturer in this market. There are always good experiences and bad...let's look at the big picture.
Just my 2 cents.
Steve

[Engovatov 0]

>not parachutes in general, but a specific sport
> parachute. For them to launch a study on a particular
> sport parachute without outside input is unbelievable.
What I am most curious, is whether they will test other comparable canopies in the exact same setting - ONLY then the test will have any other validity, other then Dan's personal satisfaction and/or defense strategy.
Any ram-air canopy can collapse, stall, spin out of control etc etc given some particular control input or conditions. There are no standards to my knowledge, that guide how "deep in control range" such abnormal behavior should not happen. So the only valid study would be a comparative study.
There are documented fatal accidents caused by spinning malfunctions of the PD Stilleto canopies - when people did not cutaway in time. There are documented injuries caused by fast openings of the PD Sabre. Should we get worried about that? I guess not: both canopies are fine products - the fact that you can cause them to work improperly is just something you need to be aware of - but not a manufacturing or design defect.
The whole story seems to be just FUD spreading - it did not add any good feelings toward Atair for me..

[Jimbo 0]

Quote

Let's face it . This is small potatoes for NASA.

Is it? I saw a special on one of the new NASA space craft not too long ago and they were landing it with, you guessed it, a really large 'not round' (not sure if it was square of eliptical) parachute.
No matter who pays for this particular test, I'll bet that the information learned will be valuable to NASA in some way down the line.