FallinWoman 1 #1 January 13, 2002 I have noticed that my Pro-Track records a deployment altitude significantly lower than when I think I have pulled. How much of a discrepancy have you found? Are we talking two hundred feet? Five hundred? Does the opening distance of your canopy affect how many feet?AnneWhat do I make? Teachers make a difference. What do you make? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 20 #2 January 13, 2002 The Protack stops your freefall when it detects you re no longer falling above a certian rate. Its a low enough rate that it records birdman flight at <30 mph so the snivel and deployment sequence is all counted as freefall. It stops once your canopy is open so even if you toss at 3500 and snivel to 2800, it records 2800 as your opening. Mine constantly shows me opening at 18-2200 feet except on long spots.I want to touch the sky, I want to fly so high ~ Sonique Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BadDog 0 #3 January 13, 2002 I usually start waving off at 3,000 and pull shortly thereafter. The ProTrack shows me open at 2,200 on a pretty consistent basis. Based on the openings I get (slow), that's about right (I have verified it a few times by checking the Digitude after opening).CorporateLawyerDave aka BadDog Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkydiveMonkey 0 #4 January 13, 2002 It shows what height you're open, not when you dump. Support the cause - do a skydive(r) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites FallinWoman 1 #5 January 14, 2002 Ok, it sounds like I was misinformed about my ProTrack...if it reads opening at 2200 and my main takes 700-800 feet to open, then I really did dump at 3000 or just under, right??Then I have another question....does this seem like too low of a deployment altitude for a jumper with 140 jumps, jumps every weekend (very current!) jumping a lightly loaded Sabre??? (I need help settling an arguement!)Thanks,AnneWhat do I make? Teachers make a difference. What do you make? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites PhreeZone 20 #6 January 14, 2002 I've only got 257 jumps and looking at the last 50 jumps on mine shows a constant range of between 1900-2500 feet except for the occasional 1400 As for your case, with a sabre the snivel is only really about 400-500 feet. Look at some of my previos postings for a better explination between percieved distance and actual distance in a snivel. So if the Protack reads 2200 then you really tossed at about 2600-2700. Is it too low? Probally not, but don't let your self fall in to the habit of slowly lowering the altitude you pull at. It happens to most people with out them even noticing. If you notice that the distances are going down, work on pull higher.Currency has nothing to do with pulling low. Really low currency jumpers and super high currency jumpers have both pulled low and never lived to tell the tale.......I want to touch the sky, I want to fly so high ~ Sonique Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites FallinWoman 1 #7 January 14, 2002 Phree,I find it hard to believe that my canopy takes only 400-500 feet to open. I have my altimeter in front of my face as I throw, and then check again when the cells are all open. 700-800 feet. I also have trouble believing that all Sabres are gonna open in the same amount of altitude, regardless of number of jumps on them, loading, and how they are packed. When I first started jumping this canopy, I hated the openings, they are hard and fast. Then I learned to pack it and it takes significantly longer.AnneWhat do I make? Teachers make a difference. What do you make? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites PhreeZone 20 #8 January 14, 2002 Here is my previous stuff.....It was pointed out to me earlier this year what most people percieve to be 800-1000 foot openings are more like 500-600. Your altimeter is constantly playing catchup in freefall and under canopy it is able to fully catch up. It might be showing 3500 when you are really at 3250 and if you use that (3500) as what you start the measurement at, then have a full canopy at 2500, you think that its a 1000 opening ,but its really only a 750. You also have reaction time to figure in to the opening of a canopy. If you release the PC when you hit say 3500, by the time you actually react, you are at 3400 and that coupled with the slower reaction time at the bottom end of the opening distort the jumpers perception of a opening. The best determinate is to use a portable airspeed calculator to figure the real distance.I want to touch the sky, I want to fly so high ~ Sonique Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites FallinWoman 1 #9 January 14, 2002 QuoteIf you release the PC when you hit say 3500, by the time you actually react, you are at 3400 in freefall, it takes 6 seconds (approx) to go 1000 feet, right? So if my altimeter is in front of my eyes as I throw, you still argue that I am a second or two behind my own eyes?AnneWhat do I make? Teachers make a difference. What do you make? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Kris 0 #10 January 14, 2002 Quote in freefall, it takes 6 seconds (approx) to go 1000 feet, right? So if my altimeter is in front of my eyes as I throw, you still argue that I am a second or two behind my own eyes? Probably not, but your altimeter will have some catching up to do and that is what is probably throwing you off.Kris Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites PhreeZone 20 #11 January 14, 2002 The only way you release at 3500 is if you pull your PC and hold it at say 4000. Then you keep holding it out with the altimeter right infront of you untill the alti reads 3500. Thats only really about 2.5 seconds. Even if you realese EXACTLY when it hits 3500 feet, your reaction time is going to be at its best .06 of a second. At 165 FPS thats still ten feet you have traveled before letting go. And the Alti is actully reading the barometic pressure that it just went through, not were its at now, so it might have just passed through 3500, but its now at 3400. Only under canopy is the rate of decent slow enough that the went through pressure is near equal to the now pressure.If you are reaching back at 3500, it still takes about 1 full second to pull the PC and toss it. That now means the snivel starts 160 feet lower then what you though it did....I want to touch the sky, I want to fly so high ~ Sonique Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites wildblue 7 #12 January 14, 2002 To sorta answer your other question - it's very possible to make a sabre take 800 - 1000 feet to open.I ain't happy, I'm feeling gladI got sunshine, in a bag Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites TALONSKY 0 #13 January 14, 2002 Then I have another question....does this seem like too low of a deployment altitude for a jumper with 140 jumps, jumps every weekend (very current!) jumping a lightly loaded Sabre??? (I need help settling an arguement!)-----------------------------------------------------------------------I think the most important question is if you are comfortable with being saddled out at the attitude your pro track records. Where I jump most jumpers are in the saddle before 2000 ft AGL. On the first few jumps with my pro track it had me saddling out at 1900 to 2100. I did not like being saddled out that low I now have is set so I am saddled out at 2300-2400 AGL. That is my comfort zone plus I lave playing under canopy ( I have 260 jumps), so I think saddled out alltitude is a personal choice as long as it is not tooo low.Blue SkiesKirk Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites FallinWoman 1 #14 January 14, 2002 Yeah, I guess I am comfortable there... I know long before then if there is a problem...The arguement started cuz I was third out from 4500 feet on a "hop and pop" and I was the first to land....Everyone else pitched right out of the plane. I didn't feel the need to throw at 4000+, so I took a delay. In comparison to the others, I was low. I do not think I was dangerously low, by any means!AnneWhat do I make? Teachers make a difference. What do you make? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites PhreeZone 20 #15 January 14, 2002 On a hop and pop at 4, i'd take it down to 2500 myself then wave and toss, I'd expect my protack to read 1500-1600.I want to touch the sky, I want to fly so high ~ Sonique Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites MiataDRM 0 #16 January 14, 2002 When I do hop & pops from 4k or 4.5k...I always give myself 5-10 seconds before I wave off & pull. It gives me a chance to ensure a stable position & GROUND RUSH! I'm under a full canopy by 2500.**I'm a Pschydiver!Majdi Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites lazerq3 0 #17 January 15, 2002 I pull usaully around 2800ft and my protrak shows me consistenly at 2500-2600 ft. Except fpr that high pull in the rainjason Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 3,089 #18 January 15, 2002 >To sorta answer your other question - it's very possible to make a sabre take 800 - 1000 feet to open.That is extremely unlikely. Would you really let a canopy streamer for 8 seconds or so without doing something about it? That's a very, very long time - watch a clock for 8 seconds and then imagine staring at a streamering canopy for that long. I don't doubt it could happen, but I do doubt that most skydivers would ride a streamer for that long.The longest-sniveling canopy I've experienced was a Set-400. It seemed to take forever, but was generally under 800 feet. If you had asked me how long it sniveled the first few times I had jumped one I would have said 1500 feet, because time is magnified during situations like that.-bill von Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites wildblue 7 #19 January 16, 2002 QuoteThat is extremely unlikely.What I meant was it's very possible for the entire opening sequence to take that long. According to the difference between what your altimeter says as you decide to deploy, and the what your pro-track says you were open at. I should have been more clear. No, I don't think I would stare at a canopy for 8 seconds (althought I think I've come close, my hands we on the handles when it finally inflated)I ain't happy, I'm feeling gladI got sunshine, in a bag Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites freeflir29 0 #20 January 16, 2002 I don't know about 8 but a nice soft opening on my PD takes about 4 seconds from the time it leaves the bag to full inflation. Regardless...I'm not chopping till 1500 unless it's a very obvious mal....None yet...Knock on wood...."I got some beers....Let's Drink em!!!"Clay Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Jabeln79 0 #21 January 17, 2002 "The arguement started cuz I was third out from 4500 feet on a "hop and pop" and I was the first to land...."Anne you need to do a hop n pop with me then i garuntee you wont be the first to land even if i go last. Pull at what ever you feel comfortable with at 4500 you still have a good 12 sec. before you need to pull. who wants to be under canopy that high my first HopNpop this winter i dumped right out the door at 4500, My next one that day i pulled at 2900. Now i like to watch everyone else under canopy as i fall past.. Just know what you are pulling at everytime and know what you like but always be safe. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0
FallinWoman 1 #5 January 14, 2002 Ok, it sounds like I was misinformed about my ProTrack...if it reads opening at 2200 and my main takes 700-800 feet to open, then I really did dump at 3000 or just under, right??Then I have another question....does this seem like too low of a deployment altitude for a jumper with 140 jumps, jumps every weekend (very current!) jumping a lightly loaded Sabre??? (I need help settling an arguement!)Thanks,AnneWhat do I make? Teachers make a difference. What do you make? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 20 #6 January 14, 2002 I've only got 257 jumps and looking at the last 50 jumps on mine shows a constant range of between 1900-2500 feet except for the occasional 1400 As for your case, with a sabre the snivel is only really about 400-500 feet. Look at some of my previos postings for a better explination between percieved distance and actual distance in a snivel. So if the Protack reads 2200 then you really tossed at about 2600-2700. Is it too low? Probally not, but don't let your self fall in to the habit of slowly lowering the altitude you pull at. It happens to most people with out them even noticing. If you notice that the distances are going down, work on pull higher.Currency has nothing to do with pulling low. Really low currency jumpers and super high currency jumpers have both pulled low and never lived to tell the tale.......I want to touch the sky, I want to fly so high ~ Sonique Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FallinWoman 1 #7 January 14, 2002 Phree,I find it hard to believe that my canopy takes only 400-500 feet to open. I have my altimeter in front of my face as I throw, and then check again when the cells are all open. 700-800 feet. I also have trouble believing that all Sabres are gonna open in the same amount of altitude, regardless of number of jumps on them, loading, and how they are packed. When I first started jumping this canopy, I hated the openings, they are hard and fast. Then I learned to pack it and it takes significantly longer.AnneWhat do I make? Teachers make a difference. What do you make? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 20 #8 January 14, 2002 Here is my previous stuff.....It was pointed out to me earlier this year what most people percieve to be 800-1000 foot openings are more like 500-600. Your altimeter is constantly playing catchup in freefall and under canopy it is able to fully catch up. It might be showing 3500 when you are really at 3250 and if you use that (3500) as what you start the measurement at, then have a full canopy at 2500, you think that its a 1000 opening ,but its really only a 750. You also have reaction time to figure in to the opening of a canopy. If you release the PC when you hit say 3500, by the time you actually react, you are at 3400 and that coupled with the slower reaction time at the bottom end of the opening distort the jumpers perception of a opening. The best determinate is to use a portable airspeed calculator to figure the real distance.I want to touch the sky, I want to fly so high ~ Sonique Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FallinWoman 1 #9 January 14, 2002 QuoteIf you release the PC when you hit say 3500, by the time you actually react, you are at 3400 in freefall, it takes 6 seconds (approx) to go 1000 feet, right? So if my altimeter is in front of my eyes as I throw, you still argue that I am a second or two behind my own eyes?AnneWhat do I make? Teachers make a difference. What do you make? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kris 0 #10 January 14, 2002 Quote in freefall, it takes 6 seconds (approx) to go 1000 feet, right? So if my altimeter is in front of my eyes as I throw, you still argue that I am a second or two behind my own eyes? Probably not, but your altimeter will have some catching up to do and that is what is probably throwing you off.Kris Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 20 #11 January 14, 2002 The only way you release at 3500 is if you pull your PC and hold it at say 4000. Then you keep holding it out with the altimeter right infront of you untill the alti reads 3500. Thats only really about 2.5 seconds. Even if you realese EXACTLY when it hits 3500 feet, your reaction time is going to be at its best .06 of a second. At 165 FPS thats still ten feet you have traveled before letting go. And the Alti is actully reading the barometic pressure that it just went through, not were its at now, so it might have just passed through 3500, but its now at 3400. Only under canopy is the rate of decent slow enough that the went through pressure is near equal to the now pressure.If you are reaching back at 3500, it still takes about 1 full second to pull the PC and toss it. That now means the snivel starts 160 feet lower then what you though it did....I want to touch the sky, I want to fly so high ~ Sonique Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wildblue 7 #12 January 14, 2002 To sorta answer your other question - it's very possible to make a sabre take 800 - 1000 feet to open.I ain't happy, I'm feeling gladI got sunshine, in a bag Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TALONSKY 0 #13 January 14, 2002 Then I have another question....does this seem like too low of a deployment altitude for a jumper with 140 jumps, jumps every weekend (very current!) jumping a lightly loaded Sabre??? (I need help settling an arguement!)-----------------------------------------------------------------------I think the most important question is if you are comfortable with being saddled out at the attitude your pro track records. Where I jump most jumpers are in the saddle before 2000 ft AGL. On the first few jumps with my pro track it had me saddling out at 1900 to 2100. I did not like being saddled out that low I now have is set so I am saddled out at 2300-2400 AGL. That is my comfort zone plus I lave playing under canopy ( I have 260 jumps), so I think saddled out alltitude is a personal choice as long as it is not tooo low.Blue SkiesKirk Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FallinWoman 1 #14 January 14, 2002 Yeah, I guess I am comfortable there... I know long before then if there is a problem...The arguement started cuz I was third out from 4500 feet on a "hop and pop" and I was the first to land....Everyone else pitched right out of the plane. I didn't feel the need to throw at 4000+, so I took a delay. In comparison to the others, I was low. I do not think I was dangerously low, by any means!AnneWhat do I make? Teachers make a difference. What do you make? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 20 #15 January 14, 2002 On a hop and pop at 4, i'd take it down to 2500 myself then wave and toss, I'd expect my protack to read 1500-1600.I want to touch the sky, I want to fly so high ~ Sonique Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MiataDRM 0 #16 January 14, 2002 When I do hop & pops from 4k or 4.5k...I always give myself 5-10 seconds before I wave off & pull. It gives me a chance to ensure a stable position & GROUND RUSH! I'm under a full canopy by 2500.**I'm a Pschydiver!Majdi Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lazerq3 0 #17 January 15, 2002 I pull usaully around 2800ft and my protrak shows me consistenly at 2500-2600 ft. Except fpr that high pull in the rainjason Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,089 #18 January 15, 2002 >To sorta answer your other question - it's very possible to make a sabre take 800 - 1000 feet to open.That is extremely unlikely. Would you really let a canopy streamer for 8 seconds or so without doing something about it? That's a very, very long time - watch a clock for 8 seconds and then imagine staring at a streamering canopy for that long. I don't doubt it could happen, but I do doubt that most skydivers would ride a streamer for that long.The longest-sniveling canopy I've experienced was a Set-400. It seemed to take forever, but was generally under 800 feet. If you had asked me how long it sniveled the first few times I had jumped one I would have said 1500 feet, because time is magnified during situations like that.-bill von Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wildblue 7 #19 January 16, 2002 QuoteThat is extremely unlikely.What I meant was it's very possible for the entire opening sequence to take that long. According to the difference between what your altimeter says as you decide to deploy, and the what your pro-track says you were open at. I should have been more clear. No, I don't think I would stare at a canopy for 8 seconds (althought I think I've come close, my hands we on the handles when it finally inflated)I ain't happy, I'm feeling gladI got sunshine, in a bag Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeflir29 0 #20 January 16, 2002 I don't know about 8 but a nice soft opening on my PD takes about 4 seconds from the time it leaves the bag to full inflation. Regardless...I'm not chopping till 1500 unless it's a very obvious mal....None yet...Knock on wood...."I got some beers....Let's Drink em!!!"Clay Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jabeln79 0 #21 January 17, 2002 "The arguement started cuz I was third out from 4500 feet on a "hop and pop" and I was the first to land...."Anne you need to do a hop n pop with me then i garuntee you wont be the first to land even if i go last. Pull at what ever you feel comfortable with at 4500 you still have a good 12 sec. before you need to pull. who wants to be under canopy that high my first HopNpop this winter i dumped right out the door at 4500, My next one that day i pulled at 2900. Now i like to watch everyone else under canopy as i fall past.. Just know what you are pulling at everytime and know what you like but always be safe. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
