Shortening brake lines

[ojf1982 0]

Everytime i come to land, I have noticed that my stall point is very very deep, but it maybe that i have short arms. I asked the rigger at the DZ and he told me that my brake lines are the shortest PD recommends for my sabre2 and he wont do it any shorter than the manufacturers reccomendation.
Can anyone suggest a solution to this problem? I seem to be running out my landings and have ate it once already and i dont want to do eat it again.
Skydiving is not a sport, it is a way of life!
Omar B-24801

[Kris 0]

A lot of people think their brake lines are too long but usually aren't. A couple of things to check for:
1. Have someone video some of your landings. Your problems could be a timing / technique issue.
2. While under canopy, look at your brake lines as they run up to the canopy. There should be a bow in the lines and you should be able to pull at least 2" of toggle before the tail of the canopy starts to move. Make sure you are looking at the tail of the canopy & not the bow in the lines.
3. Make sure that you have the toggles all the way up against the stops before your flare. If you are holding in just a little brakes it will make a big difference during your landing. Remember, speed=lift and the more the better.
4. A trick you can use to give yourself a couple of extra inches of flare power is while you have your hands through the toggles to your palms, reach up and grab the top of the toggle. If it is done right, you are still palming the toggles so you can't accidentally drop them but all the toggle is in your hands and the brake line is between your index and middle finger. By grabbing at the top of the toggle you have just given yourself 2-3 more inches of control stroke.
Kris
IAD-JM

[BadDog 0]

I just read an article on this subject. Can't remember if it was in Skydiving or Parachutist, but it was in the last issue of one of them. Try to find it.
CorporateLawyerDave aka BadDog

[tlshealy 0]

The article is called maximum performance by Scott Miller of PD on Pg 34 Jan Parachutist. Good Article, there is a picture of a guy stalling a sabre2 and I don't think you want to do that on landing. With old F111 canopies that was more true, if you could'nt reach the stall point. you could'nt get slowed down to land, but todays canopies don't stall very well, and you want to fly the canopy until you unload it. Check out the article , it's got some good info.
Blue Skies
Tad

[freeflir29 0]

"With old F111 canopies that was more true, if you could'nt reach the stall point. you could'nt get slowed down to land"
Thats horse shit! If you stall any canopy before your feet hit the ground it's going to suck. I had my brakes too short when I first got my present PD 190 and the landings weren't great. There was no "control range" You couldn't do anything except bring it in and yank the toggles all the way down. Since I let them out 2 and 1/2 inches I actually have a "Glide point' in the brakes and then gradually bring it down to stop the canopy. More speed= better landings. I can't even come close to actually stalling this canopy. It will get much slower but then rock forward before it bow ties. You shouldn't be able to bow tie any canopy. That makes it dangerous. I've seen that happen to someone before. A PD lightning bow tied and dumped him right on his back from 5 ft up. It looked painful.......I believe thats how Chuck broke his ass on the spousal units canopy....
Check your lines......if there isn't a significant bow in the lines at full flight they are too short. Take them out a couple inches at a time and I'm sure you will find your landings improve significantly. Just be careful after an adjustment and do several practice flares up high. Also try and find the point where you attain level flight. Thats one of the most important toggle ranges to find.
"I got some beers....Let's Drink em!!!"
Clay

[tlshealy 0]

Clay,
I'm sorry but when I said "old F111 canopies" I actually was refering to Strato Clouds, Strato Stars, Cloud Delta's and Titans,
of which only the last two were F111. I'm not saying that you stalled them on landing, but if you couldn't reach the stall point on them, you would have a hard time getting a good landing. That's just my experience after 1300 jumps on those types of canopies. But I agree with you that you don't want to stall any of today's canopies on landing.
Blue Skies
Tad

[johnny1488 1]

The comment on grabbing the toggles a little farther up is a great idea. I do that now on final aproach. I'm still in full flight, I can use front risers and grab the top of the toggles with 2 fingers before I flare. The first time I did it I popped up 3 feet off the ground from the extra flare power I got. Practice with the toggles in your hands on the ground first and then up top to make sure your comfortable with your flare. Also the video is a good idea too. With a sabre2 I would assume you should have plenty of flare power.
Johnny

[cobaltdan 0]

we like to see a minimum of 4" of toggle pull on our canopies before the brake lines can pull the tail.
simple watch the tail pull toggles and see how far the toggles are below your keeper when your tail just begins to lip under.
with that said i really doubt your lines are too long.
you might want to consider some canopy coaching, and viewing your landings on video.
the coaching is important because: 1 it will teach you a routine to fly in the air to determing the flight characteristics and envelope of your wing and 2 how your wing works and how you should fly it.
just because you can land your parachute and walk away does not mean you are flying your parachute correctly. understanding of your wing will lead to good technique, and good technique will make you a better pilot (and save your ass sooner or later).
sincerely,
dan
www.extremefly.com

[freeflir29 0]

"I'm sorry but when I said "old F111 canopies"
Sorry, I snapped at ya a little. I just get tired of hearing people say that F-111 canopies are so differen't than ZP. Then they describe how they land one and sounds like the exact same technique I use. I am assuming a lot of people have the opinions they do about F-111 because the only experience they have is on STUDENT gear. Their technique for landing them probably sucked as they were newbies. The canopies probably had 5-10,000 jumps on them. I'm sure many other factors probably weighed in too. It seems that people would rather blame the canopy than realize that they weren't perfect........I can't hard stall my canopy at the present brake length. When I could....it was really hard to make anything resembling a decent landing......
"I got some beers....Let's Drink em!!!"
Clay