ICARUS size discrepancy info?

[mountainman 0]

Anyone know where to find information on how big the Safire actually is? I have heard a lot about the Safire's not being the size advertised. I have the 169 and am wondering where I can find the real size.
Thanks!
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[TALONSKY 0]

Call them:
Icarus Canopies Inc.
1627 US 1
Sebastian, Florida
Phone: (561) 581-8131
Fax: (561) 581-8132
I talked to them about a Safire 169, they told me it would be comparable to a 150 Sabre. They were very cooperative and helpfull on the phone.I held my Safire 169 up to a Hornet 170 and it is smaller I would question the 150 but to me it looked more like a 160 in size:
Blue Skies
Kirk

[mountainman 0]

Thanks Kirk. I would question the 150 as well. That seems like too big of a discrepancy. Anyway, thanks for the info.
Anyone know of an actual chart?
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[ftaba1 0]

There is a canopy comparison chart in the back of any Para
Gear catalog. It has three columns - name of a canopy, its volume
in cu. in., and its size in sq.ft.
It says: Icarus Safire 169, 452 cu.in., 169 sq.ft.;
Sabre 150, 413 cu.in., 159 sq.ft.;
Sabre 170, 451 cu.in., 179 sq.ft.;
According to this chart the area difference between Icarus and
PD canopies is about 9 sq.ft. in this range of sizes. I think it is
very close to the truth. I jump Safire 149, and was demoing
Sabre2 135. Sabre2 looked just a little smaller above my head
then Safire 149. Well, it is definitely a subjective way to measure
two canopies, but I usually trust what I see.
If you add 9 to 135 you'll get 144 sq.ft., which is the size of
Sabre2 135 in the Icarus measuring system (very close to 149).
Hope this helps.
Anton

[riggerrob 643]

Part of your confusion was caused by Icarus using two different measuring methods. At the 2001 PIA Symposium, Icarus announced that they were changing to Performance Designs' measuring method.

[mountainman 0]

Thanks for the info. I guess the 169 is really a 169. People kept tell me that if I get a 169, I'm really buying a 150-160 and all sorts of stuff. Hell, I never know what/who to believe on skydiving stuff because everyone has their own opinion/theory/"facts"/etc.
Oh well. Thanks again.
http://JumpinDuo.com - come see the fun!!

[Jimbo 0]

Rigger Rob Said:

Quote

Part of your confusion was caused by Icarus using two different measuring methods. At the 2001 PIA Symposium, Icarus announced that they were changing to Performance Designs' measuring method.

And then Mountain Man took that to mean this:

Quote

Thanks for the info. I guess the 169 is really a 169. People kept tell me that if I get a 169, I'm really buying a 150-160 and all sorts of stuff.

No. It doesn't mean that a Safire 169 is the same square footage as a PD 169. What it means is that Icarus has agreed to, sometime in the future, begin measuring their canopies with the same system that the majority of other manufacturers use. That doesn't make the 169 you have the same as a 169 that someone else may have, they might be, they might not. How do you find out for sure? Call Icarus and ask. Their telephone number is published on the website, they also have a form to send them email if you can't afford the phone call or if you prefer to remain anonymous. For the sake of clarity, I prefer a phone call.

Quote

Hell, I never know what/who to believe on skydiving stuff because everyone has their own opinion/theory/"facts"/etc.

Believe the manufacturer - nobody knows their product better than they do. Calling them works everytime and you're sure to get the correct answer (If you ask the correct question.) You never know what you'll get by asking here.
-
Jim

[mountainman 0]

Thanks for clariflying Jimbo. You cleared things up for me. I guess I didn't read it close enough. I think I'll give them a call because I am pretty curious to what I actually have.
http://JumpinDuo.com - come see the fun!!

[Geoff 0]

I jumped a Safire 129 for a while, and asked Icarus what size Crossfire would be the same size - here's a snip from the email I received:
"....a Crossfire in the same size is approximately 7% larger than that of a Safire. Therefore a 119 is about the same size as your current 129."
So at least for comparing Safires to Crossfires, the figure is 7%.
Hope that helps
Geoff

[Jimbo 0]

Quote

"....a Crossfire in the same size is approximately 7% larger than that of a Safire. Therefore a 119 is about the same size as your current 129."

That helps explain why they always wanted people jumping a Crossfire at least one size smaller than their Safire during the demo tour.