larry 0 #1 December 7, 2001 The (used) gear I got at the end of last season and unfortunately have not been able to jump yet came with a bungee collapsible pilot chute. I have heard that you have to cock some of these before each jump, but mine is not this type. I am going to go to Para-Gear and get a new PC. Before I do this I wanted to make sure I’m not being too hasty.I know that it will not work well unless you are moving a bit, so it is dangerous for a hop -n- pop right? If you whip it out before you are going fast enough, will it inflate after you pick up more speed or are you basically screwed and will have to go to emergency procedures? Last, any advice on a good “standard” size for the PC and bridal length for regular belly flying?http://www.para-gear.com/container_extras/By the way, my system is BOC throw out, I guess that is obvious to the more experienced jumpers, but not to me. This is the only system I ever used so I don’t know much about the others.Thanks a lot for the advice.-Larry Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
weid14 0 #2 December 7, 2001 you have to callapse a kill line pilot chute, not a bungee. yes the bungee will need a little airspeed to fully inflate, which may or may not cause issues in a hop-n-pop. collapsable PC's are necessary on higher performance canopies. you'll probably not notice a difference on lightly loaded canopies. you might try elsewhere for your pc and bridle also (there are some who are making them and are good, and probably less expesive) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeflir29 0 #3 December 7, 2001 Never liked the bungee idea. I recently changed my P/C from the standard to a Kill Line P/C. It was a very noticeable difference. I hear people all the time saying stuff like "You won't notice unless you are on a highly loaded elytical" Bullshit! I fly a PD 190 loaded at 1.3:1 and the difference was huge in straight and level and even bigger when I got on the risers. I nice Kill line P/C should run about $60-80 depending on manufacturer. Just tell them what size canopy you have and they will match a P/C for you. Safe Swoops!!!"and I'm not easily impressed...Ooohh look...a blue car!" -Homer Simpson Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rgoper 0 #4 December 7, 2001 jet the bungee, obtain the collapsable pilot chute. when you pack and you see "green, or blue" there's no doubt in you mind your "locked and loaded" they react faster as well.Richard"Gravity Is My Friend" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
weid14 0 #5 December 8, 2001 well, I wouldn't consider 1.3:1 lightly loaded, especailly on an F-111 material. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cyberskydive 0 #6 December 8, 2001 My first rig had a bungee and I used it till it wore out. The only thing I ever worried about with it was getting out at 1500 ft in an aircraft emergency, bungees usually need about 85 mph to inflate I believe, so I guess it would be safe to assume that it would work if the planes forward speed was adeqaute?-lolYou dont have to worry about the bungee breaking or anything because if it does it will then function as a standard pilot chute, same with the kill line......Now on my new gear I have a monkey fist collapsable with the kill line thats colored. Only prob I've had with that is that the part of the kill line that is colored goes PAST the window in the bridle when I cock it, so I recolored it with a marker, but sometimes it still goes past :) Just make sure you cock it and recheck it throughout your pack job. Thay way when you get a pin check in the plane, and someone sees its white cause you didnt feel like coloring it again and they say "your pilot chutes not cocked" you just know that it is becausae you were paying attention to it while you packed it right? -lolI've heard of a way to adjust the kill line, or do something I cant remember to fix it, but I cant remember what it is, and it works like it is......... I would buy 10 more of em!-lolThe manufacturer of your canopy may have information on the effects of different kinds of pilot chutes, I know mine does. Usually the effects of pilot chute changes are noticed more with higher wing loadings etc, but it always makes intersting reading?-lolAsk your rigger! The only dumb question is one not asked!blues http://www.15meu.usmc.mil/ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites lazerq3 0 #7 December 8, 2001 You have nothing to worry about with the bungy. I jump one and have had no problems with it at all. When it come to hopnpops remember you are already going approx 80 mph when you exit so if you will have sufficiant airspeed to deploy secs after you leave . I have researched this topic with my DZO/senior rigger, and he told me you only need approx 40 to 50 mph to inflate the bungee. However I was told the if doing a static type jump meaning balloon or helo to fall at least 1000 ft before deploying to issure inflation. Now whe it comes to having to bail out of a plane at 1500 ft, I'm going for reserve. Thats weather I have a bungee or kill line. jason Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites tlshealy 0 #8 December 8, 2001 Hi Larry,I modified my PC this summer to a bungee collapsable, and found a quick way to test it before I jumped it. I wrapped the bridlearoud my hand and flipped it out of a car window at 30 mph, it stayed deflated untill about 40 MPH and at 55MPH about ripped my arm off. (note: accelerate slowly) So the next weekend I jumped it and it worked great. I'll still buy a KLPC this winter for next year, but I wouldn't be afraid to try yours.Good Luck and Blue Skies.Tad Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites larry 0 #9 December 8, 2001 Thanks all for the great advice. Although I better understand and am not afraid to use the bungee now, think I’m still going to go with the kill line pilot chute. Out of curiosity, will definitely try the inflation speed test with a car on the bungee.-Larry Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites riggerrob 643 #10 December 8, 2001 Bungee or kill-line pilotchute?I have a bungee on one of my rigs and a kill-line on the other. I have only experienced one hesitation on a bungee. I mentally kicked myself for tossing too early, held my arch for a three more seconds and my main opened fine.On the other hand, I have repacked a bunch of reserves for people who forgot to cock their kill-line pilotchutes.The choice depends upon your wing-loading.Simple pilotchutes are best at wing-loadings below 1:1.If you visit the Icarus website, you will see that they say bungees are okay on lightly loaded canopies, but when wing-loadings exceed about 1.65, a kill-line is better. They figure that since heavily-loaded canopies come screaming around that last turn at speeds exceeding 40 mph, they risk re-inflating a pilotchute. And the last thing you want is a radical change in glide angle just as you turn on final.As for the old hop-and-pop argument against bungees ... Come on folks, how many of you still do hop-and-pops? Not many.How many of you have Cypri? Most of you.How many of your mains require more than 500 feet to open at terminal? Most of you. That equals almost 1,000' subterminal.There is your answer.If your main requires 500 or more feet to open, and you need to be going slow by 1000' - to avoid scaring your expensive Cypres - most of you are going to pull your reserve ripcords on any jump below 2,000'.So the whole argument against bungees is academic.If you exit low with most modern canopies, you are going to pull your reserve, and the type of main pilotchute becomes irrelevant. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites DBTECH 0 #11 December 8, 2001 For collapsible PC's, I would recommend Jim Cazer in Taladaga, Alabama.He makes many OEM PC's and will also sell direct to anyone. (forget about ParaGear)The trend is favoring smaller PC's these days. (finally-as I've been preaching this for more than ten years--21" ZP PC, last six years)Of course, I would recommend nothing larger than a 24".For pilot chutes--Jim CazerPH 256-268-9843jimcazer@aol.comDave BrownellMesa, AZ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites larry 0 #12 December 10, 2001 QuoteFor pilot chutes--Jim CazerPH 256-268-9843jimcazer@aol.comThanks, I'll check it out.-Larry Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites cobaltdan 0 #13 December 10, 2001 jim manufacturers collapsable chutes for atair. i recommend them highly !we use to just refer people to him, but he asked us not to as he prefers to only sell wholesale. db you might want to check with jim before you post his number for retail sales.sincerely,dan Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites freeflir29 0 #14 December 12, 2001 "well, I wouldn't consider 1.3:1 lightly loaded, especailly on an F-111 material."Yeah...I guess it really isn't but I just get so used to people saying..."It's just a PD 9 cell square" "Thats a boat" If you hear something enough times you start to believe it......LOL "and I'm not easily impressed...Ooohh look...a blue car!" -Homer Simpson Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Join the conversation You can post now and register later. 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lazerq3 0 #7 December 8, 2001 You have nothing to worry about with the bungy. I jump one and have had no problems with it at all. When it come to hopnpops remember you are already going approx 80 mph when you exit so if you will have sufficiant airspeed to deploy secs after you leave . I have researched this topic with my DZO/senior rigger, and he told me you only need approx 40 to 50 mph to inflate the bungee. However I was told the if doing a static type jump meaning balloon or helo to fall at least 1000 ft before deploying to issure inflation. Now whe it comes to having to bail out of a plane at 1500 ft, I'm going for reserve. Thats weather I have a bungee or kill line. jason Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tlshealy 0 #8 December 8, 2001 Hi Larry,I modified my PC this summer to a bungee collapsable, and found a quick way to test it before I jumped it. I wrapped the bridlearoud my hand and flipped it out of a car window at 30 mph, it stayed deflated untill about 40 MPH and at 55MPH about ripped my arm off. (note: accelerate slowly) So the next weekend I jumped it and it worked great. I'll still buy a KLPC this winter for next year, but I wouldn't be afraid to try yours.Good Luck and Blue Skies.Tad Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
larry 0 #9 December 8, 2001 Thanks all for the great advice. Although I better understand and am not afraid to use the bungee now, think I’m still going to go with the kill line pilot chute. Out of curiosity, will definitely try the inflation speed test with a car on the bungee.-Larry Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 643 #10 December 8, 2001 Bungee or kill-line pilotchute?I have a bungee on one of my rigs and a kill-line on the other. I have only experienced one hesitation on a bungee. I mentally kicked myself for tossing too early, held my arch for a three more seconds and my main opened fine.On the other hand, I have repacked a bunch of reserves for people who forgot to cock their kill-line pilotchutes.The choice depends upon your wing-loading.Simple pilotchutes are best at wing-loadings below 1:1.If you visit the Icarus website, you will see that they say bungees are okay on lightly loaded canopies, but when wing-loadings exceed about 1.65, a kill-line is better. They figure that since heavily-loaded canopies come screaming around that last turn at speeds exceeding 40 mph, they risk re-inflating a pilotchute. And the last thing you want is a radical change in glide angle just as you turn on final.As for the old hop-and-pop argument against bungees ... Come on folks, how many of you still do hop-and-pops? Not many.How many of you have Cypri? Most of you.How many of your mains require more than 500 feet to open at terminal? Most of you. That equals almost 1,000' subterminal.There is your answer.If your main requires 500 or more feet to open, and you need to be going slow by 1000' - to avoid scaring your expensive Cypres - most of you are going to pull your reserve ripcords on any jump below 2,000'.So the whole argument against bungees is academic.If you exit low with most modern canopies, you are going to pull your reserve, and the type of main pilotchute becomes irrelevant. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DBTECH 0 #11 December 8, 2001 For collapsible PC's, I would recommend Jim Cazer in Taladaga, Alabama.He makes many OEM PC's and will also sell direct to anyone. (forget about ParaGear)The trend is favoring smaller PC's these days. (finally-as I've been preaching this for more than ten years--21" ZP PC, last six years)Of course, I would recommend nothing larger than a 24".For pilot chutes--Jim CazerPH 256-268-9843jimcazer@aol.comDave BrownellMesa, AZ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
larry 0 #12 December 10, 2001 QuoteFor pilot chutes--Jim CazerPH 256-268-9843jimcazer@aol.comThanks, I'll check it out.-Larry Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cobaltdan 0 #13 December 10, 2001 jim manufacturers collapsable chutes for atair. i recommend them highly !we use to just refer people to him, but he asked us not to as he prefers to only sell wholesale. db you might want to check with jim before you post his number for retail sales.sincerely,dan Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeflir29 0 #14 December 12, 2001 "well, I wouldn't consider 1.3:1 lightly loaded, especailly on an F-111 material."Yeah...I guess it really isn't but I just get so used to people saying..."It's just a PD 9 cell square" "Thats a boat" If you hear something enough times you start to believe it......LOL "and I'm not easily impressed...Ooohh look...a blue car!" -Homer Simpson Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
