Inapropriate moderation.

[AndyMan 7]

I recently had some posts deleted only because a moderator disagreed with an opinion in the thread.

Specifically, in Safety and Training, an interesting discussion over a plane crash was deleted, simply because Bill disagreed with someone who thought it wasn't a big deal.

The discussion had been interesting.

Since the posts were removed, I've had two people PM me telling me they'd learned something from the thread before it was removed.

As far as I know, there's no rule that says we're not allowed to post opinions that the moderators disagree with.


Moderators deleting posts simply because they disagree with the editorial content is the definition of censorship, and is contrary to the functioning of an online community.

BillVon should only be deleting posts when rules are broken. Deleting posts only when he disagrees with the opinion is just wrong, and should not be tolerated.

_Am

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You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead.

[pilotdave 0]

I thought it was bizarre that he deleted on-topic posts. But I don't think he was disagreeing with you at all. He completely agreed that there was merit to the thread... it was a topic worth discussing in the S&T forum. I think he was simply trying to clean up the thread and unfortunately good information got deleted too. I'd agree that it was some over-moderation, but I don't see the conspiracy theory.

Dave

[Baksteen 84]

Why not simply PM Bill and discuss your issue with him?

"That formation-stuff in freefall is just fun and games but with an open parachute it's starting to sound like, you know, an extreme sport."
~mom

[j_ung 0]

I have no idea what happened, so I won't go so far as to express an opinion on it, but I do have some insight into how the forums function behind the curtain, which might help. It may very well be that he moved a post that was the root of your post. If you replied to somebody else, and he moved that post, yours would have been unintentional collateral damage.

If that's what happened, it may be possible to bring back your posts without the one he originally wanted to move. I second the suggestion that you PM the mod who moved them. Even if my notion isn't the correct one, that's the best way to understand what happened and fix it, if possible.

[AndyMan 7]

Not a conspiracy theory, because there's just one person. Just one person deleting posts where he disagreed with an opinion.

The fact that he agreed with me doesn't change anything. He deleted posts because he didn't like one opinion in a discussion. Then he added his opinion, as if it were the word of god, as if his was the only opinion that mattered.

That's wrong.

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Why not simply PM Bill and discuss your issue with him?

I did. His reply was rude.

_Am

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You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead.

[rwieder 0]

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I think he was simply trying to clean up the thread and unfortunately good information got deleted too. I'd agree that it was some over-moderation, but I don't see the conspiracy theory

I agree with what your saying. But, i would like to offer a solution, if posts are to be deleted by a moderator, prior to deleting them the moderator could copy and paste the posts which will be deleted and on topic to a .txt file or an .ms.word.doc. After deleting the offending, or rule breaking posts, add the posts which were deleted in good faith back to the thread by coping and pasting the post to their original destinatiom. Either that, or copy and paste your post(s) yourself and put it back in later. That way 2 birds can be killed with one stone as it were.

[ianmdrennan 2]

Deleting opinions we don't agree on is just not what we do. Hell, if we did, I'd be deleting a LOT of posts

Bill has ALWAYS been a very fair moderator - I'd guess it was either an accident that your posts were removed with a cleanup, or your posts needed cleaning up themselves.

Bill and I have WILDLY differing opinions on some issues and I've always been able to discuss them with him.

I think it's pretty poor form come bitching here instead of dealing with it directly with Bill. If you don't have any luck with that, there are other avenues - publically bitching about moderation though...well, IMO, that's pretty poor form.

Ian

Performance Designs Factory Team

[AndyMan 7]

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Deleting opinions we don't agree on is just not what we do

I really don't know what Bill's motiviations where, but - well, it smells like a duck, and walks like a duck, and looks like a duck.

The fact is that he deleted an interesting conversation that didn't break any rules. He replaced a conversation with his opinion, as if it were the word of god. The then deleted any attempts to restart the conversation, and replied rudely to PM's asking 'why'.

We deserve better. I have no doubt that there's a long list of members who'd be more than willing to take over, enforce the rules fairly without deleting conversations they dislike.


_Am

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You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead.

[PhreeZone 20]

Typically posts about plane crashes are posted in the Incidents forum, not the S&T. At first read through for me when I was forum hopping I thought it was in Incidents and attempted to remove some of the chatter from the thread only to find I did not have permissions since it was not in a forum I moderate. I suspect Bill did the same but he has permissions to both forums and therefor removed posts from S&T that should have been allowed in that forum but would not be allowed to remain in Incidents. I can not find any other mention of a plane crash in Safety and Training's history, this one really had me thinking it was in Incidents until I double checked why I could not remove some of the posts.

Bill and I disagree on our opinions on a few things but we only really use a heavy hand for moderation in the Incidents forum. If its used outside of that forum Bill usually has a really good explanation as to why since his is probably the most fair and impartial moderation we have.

I do have to say that this issue could have been resolved by having a private conversation with the moderation and management team. As we have all mentioned multiple times, if you have an issue with how we are moderating you should contact Sangiro or now J_ung and talk to them about it. Publicly bitching about moderation is not only in really poor taste, it is against the forum rules: http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=142088

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[AndyMan 7]

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Publicly bitching about moderation is not only in really poor taste, it is against the forum rules: http://www.dropzone.com/...orum.cgi?post=142088

Bill explicitly told me that if I have any complaints I should post them here.

Talk about bad taste, take it up with him. This whole thing stinks.

Lastly, if this were a simple case of deletion by accident, a simple mea-culpa would have ended this a long time ago. Bill seems to think that deleting posts is something that can be taken lightly. It is not.

_Am

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You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead.

[TomAiello 26]

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if posts are to be deleted by a moderator, prior to deleting them the moderator could copy and paste the posts which will be deleted and on topic to a .txt file or an .ms.word.doc.

Actually, when posts are removed from the forums, they go into a holding forum called the Recycle Bin, so that (a) they could be cut and pasted back in, and (b) the site administrators can check what content was removed in the event of complaint about it. Posts aren't actually deleted completely.

Understand that cutting and pasting back in removed replies is time consuming, and sometimes moderators just don't have time to do it.

The best way to make sure that your reply is not removed is to attach it to the first post in a thread, rather than attaching it to a post that might be removed.

-- Tom Aiello

Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com
SnakeRiverBASE.com