kallend 2,114
kallend 2,114
QuoteYour typical rhetoric, John. Again, why would you have to ask?
Can't answer, can you?
...
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
QuoteQuoteYour typical rhetoric, John. Again, why would you have to ask?
Can't answer, can you?
Seriously ~ I'm not trying to fan the flame here Doc.
I know you mentioned your impressive resume of accomplishments with regard to skill...have you held an Instructor rating of any kind in the sport?
If not, have you ever considered it?
I honestly think that with the way you collate & present information you would have an interesting (positive) twist and be an asset in that area of the sport.
Just being curious.
~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~
billvon 3,086
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Both of you cut it out.
ChrisD 0
QuoteSomeone post that vid of the gopro foot snag?
It's not about experience, or who likes who, or whatever:
It's about decorating yourselves like a christmas tree with fishhooks, you know, for that incident that can never happen to me?
And for that argument regarding personal freedom and the "RIGHT," right, to do what you want.
Every incident basically, the short version, makes it just that much harder to deal with the abutting neigbors, insurance rates, and the public in general.
Just my 2 cents
C
.
qudo's to the modeerator, GLAD you said it!
C
"Both of you cut it out. " AWESOME!!!
But what do I know, "I only have one tandem jump."
QuoteDo you think an inexperienced jumper should take the advice of their instructor, or from an anonymous source on the internet?
Pretty easy question (if you aren't trying to hide a double standard).
Ok, how about this - your right that advice from an instructor should be taken over and above than from an anonymous source on the internet. In that respect, you are correct.
You have, however, focused on one reply to your post and ignored others. How do you address my assertion that you have proven to be far above the 'average' skydiver, and that any course of action you followed may not be the best choice for the majority of new jumpers?
Just because something worked for you does not mean that it's advisable for others. To use your position against you, your suggestion that a Stiletto is acceptable for a jumper with 38 jumps is coming from an 'anonymous' source on the internet, and what 'real' jumpers should do is follow the advice of their 'real' instructors.
Nice talkin' to ya'.
*shaking head*
*shaking head*
My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239
Many years ago, I was an accomplished cliff diver/gymnast. One day I took a couple friends up a 60 foot cliff over the St. Croix River. One of these guys was a very good ski jumper and pretty good gymnast. He did well, followed instructions and managed some pretty impressive dives.
The other was a football player with little athletic ability and virtually no air sense at all. He had no business being there. But, his ego was not going to let him back down. Plus, I certainly wasn’t smart enough (at age 17) to tell him to take the path to the beach. It’s amazing how water can make your skin turn black & blue. But even more amazing that he climbed back up for a second attempt. 
The point is this… Just because the experienced guy knows what he’s doing doesn’t mean others should follow. Sometimes it works out ok…sometimes, not so much? Sometimes, you just have to tell them to take the path down to the beach!
Birdshit & Fools Productions
"Son, only two things fall from the sky."
"Son, only two things fall from the sky."
kallend 2,114
QuoteQuoteDo you think an inexperienced jumper should take the advice of their instructor, or from an anonymous source on the internet?
Pretty easy question (if you aren't trying to hide a double standard).
Ok, how about this - your right that advice from an instructor should be taken over and above than from an anonymous source on the internet. In that respect, you are correct.
You have, however, focused on one reply to your post and ignored others. How do you address my assertion that you have proven to be far above the 'average' skydiver, and that any course of action you followed may not be the best choice for the majority of new jumpers?
Just because something worked for you does not mean that it's advisable for others. To use your position against you, your suggestion that a Stiletto is acceptable for a jumper with 38 jumps is coming from an 'anonymous' source on the internet, and what 'real' jumpers should do is follow the advice of their 'real' instructors.
One size does not fit all. Every case should be taken on its merits. For a newbie jumper the merits can only be evaluated by his/her instructor or other qualified individual who has observed them. Most certainly NOT by anonymous posters on internet forums.
...
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
ufk22 33
QuoteTo get back to the real question, should anyone with 38 jumps be advised or allowed to jump a stiletto?QuoteQuoteDo you think an inexperienced jumper should take the advice of their instructor, or from an anonymous source on the internet?
Pretty easy question (if you aren't trying to hide a double standard).
Ok, how about this - your right that advice from an instructor should be taken over and above than from an anonymous source on the internet. In that respect, you are correct.
You have, however, focused on one reply to your post and ignored others. How do you address my assertion that you have proven to be far above the 'average' skydiver, and that any course of action you followed may not be the best choice for the majority of new jumpers?
Just because something worked for you does not mean that it's advisable for others. To use your position against you, your suggestion that a Stiletto is acceptable for a jumper with 38 jumps is coming from an 'anonymous' source on the internet, and what 'real' jumpers should do is follow the advice of their 'real' instructors.
One size does not fit all. Every case should be taken on its merits. For a newbie jumper the merits can only be evaluated by his/her instructor or other qualified individual who has observed them. Most certainly NOT by anonymous posters on internet forums.
This isn't about arguing "one size fits all". I've been teaching skydiving for over 20 years and teaching Instructors for over 10. No one I've taught or certified with a rating has been good enough to judge a student at 38 jumps and tell me how good they will get or how badly they will injure themselves.
This is the paradox of skydiving. We do something very dangerous, expose ourselves to a totally unnecesary risk, and then spend our time trying to make it safer.
kallend 2,114
QuoteQuoteTo get back to the real question, should anyone with 38 jumps be advised or allowed to jump a stiletto?QuoteQuoteDo you think an inexperienced jumper should take the advice of their instructor, or from an anonymous source on the internet?
Pretty easy question (if you aren't trying to hide a double standard).
Ok, how about this - your right that advice from an instructor should be taken over and above than from an anonymous source on the internet. In that respect, you are correct.
You have, however, focused on one reply to your post and ignored others. How do you address my assertion that you have proven to be far above the 'average' skydiver, and that any course of action you followed may not be the best choice for the majority of new jumpers?
Just because something worked for you does not mean that it's advisable for others. To use your position against you, your suggestion that a Stiletto is acceptable for a jumper with 38 jumps is coming from an 'anonymous' source on the internet, and what 'real' jumpers should do is follow the advice of their 'real' instructors.
One size does not fit all. Every case should be taken on its merits. For a newbie jumper the merits can only be evaluated by his/her instructor or other qualified individual who has observed them. Most certainly NOT by anonymous posters on internet forums.
This isn't about arguing "one size fits all". I've been teaching skydiving for over 20 years and teaching Instructors for over 10. No one I've taught or certified with a rating has been good enough to judge a student at 38 jumps and tell me how good they will get or how badly they will injure themselves.
But anonymous posters on internet forums can?
...
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
QuoteEvery case should be taken on its merits. For a newbie jumper the merits can only be evaluated by his/her instructor or other qualified individual who has observed them.
QuoteNo one I've taught or certified with a rating has been good enough to judge a student at 38 jumps and tell me how good they will get or how badly they will injure themselves.
If you have been working with a student from FJ to 38, any instructor who has been doing their job should be able to determine if the student has their head up the back side or not, in 38 jumps.... otherwise your a shitty instructor or not doing your job.
you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo
ufk22 33
QuoteQuoteEvery case should be taken on its merits. For a newbie jumper the merits can only be evaluated by his/her instructor or other qualified individual who has observed them.
QuoteNo one I've taught or certified with a rating has been good enough to judge a student at 38 jumps and tell me how good they will get or how badly they will injure themselves.
If you have been working with a student from FJ to 38, any instructor who has been doing their job should be able to determine if the student has their head up the back side or not, in 38 jumps.... otherwise your a shitty instructor or not doing your job.
I've seen a number of jumpers who, at 38 jumps, were struggling to progress, who would appear to have "their heads up their backside", that went on to be some of the best, most accomplished and safest skydivers around.
I've also seen "natural" skydivers who at 38 jumps could do no wrong get in over their heads and end up seriously injured or dead a few jumps or a few years later.
Any instructor who thinks they can judge long-term success based on short term progress is a "shitty instructor and not doing their job".
To once again get back to where this started, any instructor that would "recommend" that someone with 38 jumps buy a Stiletto is a fool.
Now, it could well be in John's case that this was not "recommended", but rather he, having MAD SKILZ, decided that he was ready for the canopy and no one seriously objected, which is quite different than recommending. To quote someone's sig line here "the fact that no one died doesn't mean it was a good decision".
Roger Nelson was an innovator in this sport and I have a great deal of respect for him, but one of the reasons we all know who he is was is that he constantly pushed the edge in everything he did. Sometimes it worked out well and sometimes it didn't.
And by the way, I've been told by many that Roger NEVER used Stilettos as part of his student program, just Sabres.
This is the paradox of skydiving. We do something very dangerous, expose ourselves to a totally unnecesary risk, and then spend our time trying to make it safer.
Guys, Guys...you are letting yourselves be misdirected.
You can't set up ANYBODY based on what the future MAY hold. You go with what is NOW.
38 jumps? He just MAY be that next world champion. But not at 38 jumps. I don't care who he is or what debatable "skills" he has. 38 jumps is not enough experience for the category of canopies you are talking about. Not on the internet, not in person.
You can't set up ANYBODY based on what the future MAY hold. You go with what is NOW.
38 jumps? He just MAY be that next world champion. But not at 38 jumps. I don't care who he is or what debatable "skills" he has. 38 jumps is not enough experience for the category of canopies you are talking about. Not on the internet, not in person.
My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239
kallend 2,114
QuoteGuys, Guys...you are letting yourselves be misdirected.
You can't set up ANYBODY based on what the future MAY hold. You go with what is NOW.
38 jumps? He just MAY be that next world champion. But not at 38 jumps. I don't care who he is or what debatable "skills" he has. 38 jumps is not enough experience for the category of canopies you are talking about. Not on the internet, not in person.
Well, nice way to MISS THE POINT, which is:
Should an inexperienced skydiver ask questions on the internet, or ask his/her instructor?
Over and over again it's preached "Ask your instructor". Now you appear to be reversing that.
...
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
Do you really think that I was addressing YOUR "point"?
Since you haven't figured it out by now, I'll spell it out for you:
I have no desire to address your KMP.
Again, please do not interject your absurdities into conversations I'm having with others.
It's stalking and it's creepy
KMP.
My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239
and the answer is....
d. None of the above.
How does the inexperienced jumper know which advice is "bad"? If they know, there's no need to ask,
So my question remains valid while yours is not.
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.