efs4ever 3 #1 May 18, 2005 Had a really unusual packing error on a tandem Saturday. Newbie packer packed me a FLIP THROUGH. For a minute I thought I'd have to chop because the toggles were wrapped up in the twisted risers. I got them undone, though, and landed a bit hard because the toggle pressure was greater at flare time. I walked him through the process of checking the line groups by running up from the risers. Apparently he was just hanging it up on the hook without checking. Anyone else ever discover a harness flip through on opening a tandem? Or worse, a WALK through?Russell M. Webb D 7014 Attorney at Law 713 385 5676 https://www.tdcparole.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
linestretch 0 #2 May 18, 2005 yuppers, had a buddy open under a double flip through on a tandem, and he chopped. And watched a student land a step through that was through a line group below the slider....very odd looking, almost like landing linetwists...scary to watch.my pics & stuff! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mark 107 #3 May 18, 2005 QuoteNewbie packer packed me a FLIP THROUGH... I walked him through the process of checking the line groups by running up from the risers. Did you talk to the supervising rigger? What did he or she say? Mark Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #4 May 18, 2005 Yes that has happened to me, once, after that and the "come to jesus meeting" the packer had with our rigger, I haven't had one again. It didn't require a cutaway, I was able to peel the toggles around from the risers. Whats funny is this was a couple of years ago during my tandem cert course and the guy that packed it was riding "bitch" for me. He wasn't very happy with himself but was happy that we didn't have to chop it. I had another tandem chop on Sunday, though. Had a tension knot with my right control lines (both steering and flare) and a D-line. Try and try I did to clear it, pulling on the riser and the control lines, I ended up having to chop it so I'd have a landable canopy.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 643 #5 May 18, 2005 Hint: next time you get tension knots, try pulling the toggles all the way down, into a deep stall, then letting them up FAST. When the lines go slack, tension knots usually fall out. That technique worked for me the last half-dozen times I had tension knots on Strong F-111 tandem mains. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kissrg 0 #6 May 18, 2005 Do you have any tension knots with flat packed canopy? Because I think pulling up the slider arranges the lines when flat packing. Propacking a tandem canopy you can see that the heavier steering lines are always located underneath. So after laying the canopy to ground I sort the front, rear and steering lines again from the risers to the canopy to avoid tension knots. What about this method? Robert Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FreeflyGoat 0 #7 May 18, 2005 This same thing happened to me a few months back. And this is from my regular packer who has packed pretty much all of my tandem jumps. The twist went from about mid riser up to the links. I was able to unstow the toggles and move them freely without any restriction or tension. Did a good long controllability and stability check and decided to land it which I did without any problems._________________________ goat derka jerka bukkake jihad Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
efs4ever 3 #8 May 18, 2005 QuoteThis same thing happened to me a few months back. And this is from my regular packer who has packed pretty much all of my tandem jumps. The twist went from about mid riser up to the links. I was able to unstow the toggles and move them freely without any restriction or tension. Did a good long controllability and stability check and decided to land it which I did without any problems. I fail to see how anyone doing a basic run up from the risers would miss a flip through. I got the toggles out and was able to steer fine. We landed ok, but I felt it was a tad bit more difficult flare at the bottom.Russell M. Webb D 7014 Attorney at Law 713 385 5676 https://www.tdcparole.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cpoxon 0 #9 May 19, 2005 I know of a Tandem Instructor who discovered a step through on his reserve after the packer passed both the primary and secondary drogue release cables through both ends of the closing loop... :-oSkydiving Fatalities - Cease not to learn 'til thou cease to live Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NSEMN8R 0 #10 May 19, 2005 QuoteOr worse, a WALK through? What's a walk through? Why is it worse than a flip through? I don't think I've heard that term before. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
efs4ever 3 #11 May 19, 2005 QuoteQuoteOr worse, a WALK through? What's a walk through? Why is it worse than a flip through? I don't think I've heard that term before. Usually happens when the canopy falls all over you on a no wind day. You get up (assuming you didn't stand it up ) and step through a line group. It can be exciting if not cleared. Sometimes called a "step through". It's usually chop city!!Russell M. Webb D 7014 Attorney at Law 713 385 5676 https://www.tdcparole.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FreeflyGoat 0 #12 May 19, 2005 Oh, I've had one of those too. It was on my sport rig. F$#@^* no good packers!!_________________________ goat derka jerka bukkake jihad Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
efs4ever 3 #13 May 19, 2005 QuoteQuoteQuoteOr worse, a WALK through? What's a walk through? Why is it worse than a flip through? I don't think I've heard that term before. Usually happens when the canopy falls all over you on a no wind day. You get up (assuming you didn't stand it up ) and step through a line group. It can be exciting if not cleared. Sometimes called a "step through". It's usually chop city!! Silly me. You don't CLEAR a step through Russell M. Webb D 7014 Attorney at Law 713 385 5676 https://www.tdcparole.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hooknswoop 19 #14 May 19, 2005 You pa ypackers, you get what you get. Nobody takes care of you like you Derek Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hookitt 1 #15 May 19, 2005 If he pulled both drogue release handles, what was the problem after the second one as pulled?My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cpoxon 0 #16 May 19, 2005 QuoteIf he pulled both drogue release handles, what was the problem after the second one as pulled? He didn't pull both. He'd switched between a rig that only had one drogue release and one that had two. The rig was a Vector that had a Paratec style mod with the secondary release on the cutaway pad. It caused a bit of a kerfuffle in the BPA with some debate as to whether instructors should familiarise themselves with differing kit in a hanging harness when switching equipment or to avoid it altogether.Skydiving Fatalities - Cease not to learn 'til thou cease to live Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
linestretch 0 #17 May 19, 2005 Tried the stalling the canopy, and then letting the toggles back up fast too...thinking the same thing. Did it 3 times, and was kicking my ass. Didn't work, and chopped.my pics & stuff! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #18 May 20, 2005 Quote Tried the stalling the canopy, and then letting the toggles back up fast too...thinking the same thing. Did it 3 times, and was kicking my ass. Didn't work, and chopped. I've did that on the previous tension knot chop I had (different rig/canopy, that was relined shortly there after) and it only made things much much worst. Instead of a gentle turn I was fighting, I was then in a hard spin, so this time around I left the toggles in place and just used my hands on the control lines above the guide ring, pulled on them hard and fast as well as the same with the rear risers. No joy and then a chop, but atleast I wasn't on my back spinning then watching the freebag come off a shoulder. Thank you for the advice, that reinforces what I've tried in the past.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydiverton 0 #19 May 20, 2005 QuoteTried the stalling the canopy, and then letting the toggles back up fast too...thinking the same thing. Did it 3 times, and was kicking my ass. Didn't work, and chopped. Agree, worked once on a BT80 for me(BT80 is 100% ZePo with microlines) ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Using your droque to gain stability is a bad habit, Especially when you are jumping a sport rig Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NickDG 23 #20 May 21, 2005 >>the toggle pressure was greater at flare time<< Those are the tough ones to figure out and I'm glad it worked out for you (and your passenger.) But for the sake of others please consider the possibility you can get below a safe cutaway altitude, make a turn, and then have a control line jam in the down position. You are also "sawing" on the control line where the twist is when making turns . . . just something to consider. NickD BASE 194 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
packerkevin 0 #21 May 22, 2005 QuoteOh, I've had one of those too. It was on my sport rig. F$#@^* no good packers!! Yet you still let them pack your rig? most of the packers i know have packed hundreds of tims with a VERY low mal %Growing old is mandatory, Growing up is optional Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FreeflyGoat 0 #22 May 22, 2005 want a job?_________________________ goat derka jerka bukkake jihad Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
