handling turbulance with tandems?

[skydiveoc 0]

I have found that aggressive " S" turning keeps the wing pressurised and less susspeptable to cell closure and collapse while my co-workers come in straight and gentle but seem to be effected by turbulence more. Any thoughts here?

[Deuce 1]

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I have found that aggressive " S" turning keeps the wing pressurised and less susspeptable to cell closure and collapse while my co-workers come in straight and gentle but seem to be effected by turbulence more. Any thoughts here?

Not with those jump numbers. Are the majority of your jumps tandems? My few hundred really are statistically insignificant compared to that.

I aggressively S turn when I'm high on my target. I really prefer it to the stall-surge method cause winds at my DZ can be very dramatically different between 200 feet and ground level. I have found myself concerned too many times when I did a stall-surge and found the winds at ground level to be nothing. I won't say I "stabbed" at the double-brakes, but I hit them harder than I anticipated. S turns lead to less of that.

[skydiver30960 0]

I am a to-the-bone high wind tandem instructor WEENIE. I will run and hide if the turbulence becomes even moderate. Bad news is I've sat around and watch other folks make a lot of jumps and a lot of money on the days I didn't have the balls to jump. Good news is (so far, thank God) no injuries to me or a student.

Now, to answer your question more directly, I'd be worried about me getting myself in trouble with hard S turns (sashaying? sp?) close to the ground. Instead, when I do get in conditions that favor turbulence close to the ground, I just try to minimize my exposure to the turbulence-producers, like staying well away from the hangars and treelines, and not flying over the tarmac (whenever possible).

Elvisio "all bones intact for the moment" Rodriguez

[AggieDave 6]

I've only got 700-ish tandem jumps to my name, so it could be an experience thing, but I know I'm not a big fan of agressive S-turns. Although I have used them before, I just stick to a brake-surge approach. So far no real problems *knock on wood.*

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[skydiveoc 0]

I should have been more clear on when I am manouvering...not on landing approach so much but in the pattern or higher...1000 or so when it is turbulent or sheering.

josh

[AggieDave 6]

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I should have been more clear on when I am manouvering...not on landing approach so much but in the pattern or higher...1000 or so when it is turbulent or sheering.

Oh. As for that I just fly the canopy, making corrections as needed, nothing special.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[matthewcline 0]

I usually explain to the passenger it is the same as whe nthey fly united, after they get done saying "oh shit they have engines" we get a laugh and I just hang in the brakes as you would under your bigger solo rigs, you know old school but it owkrs for me. I have only 650 tandems though.

Matt

An Instructors first concern is student safety.
So, start being safe, first!!!

[ouzts63 0]

I don't really understand? Are you worried about wind shear above 500 ft, Or just on landings say 200ft. As for me above 500ft screw it and let it fly. You should have more than enought time to regain control. below 200 ft you have to play it as it comes. I recommend not doing "s" turns. Sink and surg will help give you the speed to over come most wind changes. Most of the time. But then I only have 3000 jumps and only 1400+ are tandems

If you are going to be dumb. You better be tough!

[dsbbreck 0]

I've got about 2000 tandems and don't think anyone should be doing the sink and surge in turbulant conditions.

We were probably all taught that flying your canopy in half brakes in turbulent conditions was the thing to do, but they were wrong. It's becoming very apparent to most experienced canopy flyers that you want to fly your canopy at full speed to keep it pressurized.

When your in brakes with your canopy you are closer to the stall speed. If it gets turbulent your asking for it to stall.

I don't ever do the sink surge. I do a turn onto final to build up speed, just like I would my HP canopy. Speed equals lift and I get great landings. On windy or turbulant days I just fly straight in and no aggressive turns high.

David

"Socrates wasn't killed because he had the answer.......he was killed because he asked the question."

[dsbbreck 0]

Don't just take my word for it. Take Brian Germains.

Post here: http://dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=1626595;sb=post_latest_reply;so=ASC;forum_view=forum_view_collapsed;;page=unread#unread

David

"Socrates wasn't killed because he had the answer.......he was killed because he asked the question."

[brettpobastad 0]

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I've got about 2000 tandems and don't think anyone should be doing the sink and surge in turbulant conditions.

I agree with your response completly. I would add a couple of thoughts. First, a little brakes to smooth out the bumps works really well for me. But I use that tequnique well above landing pattern altitude. As you said, it's important to keep the canopy flying with as much forward speed as possible. I used to be against the idea of turns to increase speed for landing when doing tandems for several reasons. One, you can't effectivley use your front risers and we all know what low toggle turns can do. Two, the passenger gets absolutley nothing out of it. And three, you don't want to set a precedent for new tandem instructors. I have since changed views on that somewhat. I little induced speed on landing really helps flatten out the final approach and touchdown. This is particularly helpfull with heavier passengers. I would highly recomend new tandem instructors (under 1000 tandems) not do this!

As far as dealing with turbulence under a grand, what I do is find the best and most open spot on the DZ, do my last turn higher but longer (180 instead of 90 or so) and fly it straight in from there. If the turbulence is that bad, stay on the ground. $25 bucks ain't enough money to hurt yourself, and your passenger will appreciate it as well.

"It's only arrogance if you can't back it up"

[skydiveoc 0]

Im still not convinced. I see other staff members coming in straight, full flight when its bumpy and they catch downdrafts and uplifts and usually hammer. I find the turn punches through the turbulence, induces more lift producing speed. I get more stand ups and less thumps. My concern is when I come around the corner. Will a strong downdraft imore likely nduce a collapse when it hits the top skin of the canopy from the turn?

[brentcair 0]

Hey josh, what I have found in high and turbulent winds that works well for me is I run my pattern lower and my turn to final is lower but not real aggresive so as to not expose the top skin as much but still keeping the nose hard. It also facilitates less time over the target should it become strong enough to back me up. hope your having a good season,we are doing great here in tx.
Brent

[linestretch 0]

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I run my pattern lower and my turn to final is lower but not real aggresive so as to not expose the top skin as much but still keeping the nose hard. It also facilitates less time over the target should it become strong enough to back me up.

Ditto. The surge method in high and bumpy winds is sketchy, and I won't do them. But as for turning onto final, that only works up until the DZO fires you for doing something he thinks you shouldn't be doing....which is a bummer, cuz they rock. Oh, and I do think the student gets something outa it...I've had more than a handful of students tell me that the landing was awesome, the drop right before we planed out really catches them.

my pics & stuff!

[Rabbitt 0]

Im sorry ,I dont think I was exactly clear on that. My turn onto final isnt low enough to get you in trouble but low enough that you should not need to hit brakes or sache to keep from overshooting
brent