dubbayab 0 #1 November 4, 2004 Is it possible to tighten the lower straps in drouge fall? this picture may help you understand what I talking about cause I don know all the terminology. Thanks Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #2 November 4, 2004 Thank god that hasn't happened to me. I've thought about it, though...and have always thought to leg lock and deploy. Not sure what other TI's would do though.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
YahooLV 0 #3 November 4, 2004 Damn, were those even connected?http://www.curtisglennphotography.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TALONSKY 0 #4 November 4, 2004 I would say no it is not possible to truely tighten those straps in freefall. By that I mean, yes in theory you could but you have to lift the weight of the passanger and unless they are right up next to you(unlike your picture) it would be way too much weight to move. The best thing of course is prevention. Get a cadence down and never very from it. Mine is at 4500 AGL I hook up lower laterials and put student ripcord in place then tighten them down. Next adjust student belly band. At 9000 AGL put my goggles on and helmet( lost one do to not buckeling it) then hook up top connections and then check student harness and all handles, then all connection points. I also find that verbalizing checking the connection points to your student is a great way to let them know they are truely connected to you and has at times helped calm down more than one student. Kirk Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkymonkeyONE 4 #5 November 4, 2004 Those lowers do not appear to be connected at all, but since the freefall appears to be stable then I will bet that there was absolutely no problem with the deployment. As previously stated in this thread, if you always hook up in exactly the same sequence this will never happen. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tkhayes 348 #6 November 4, 2004 yes, it is, you reach down, grab them and pull them forward to tighten them, have done it several times myself. They do not have to be that tight - most TI's seem to be focused on that aspect. Fly your body and use your legs and such to keep the passenger flying as well. Even if they are not tight, you can still fly with them underneath you. Most people seem to tighten them to the point of no flexibility or circulation for the passenger. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkymonkeyONE 4 #7 November 4, 2004 Another benefit of my Racer tandem. If my side straps are hooked up at all...and they always are.....then the passenger automatically gets cinched up to you snuggly once the drogue is thrown. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dubbayab 0 #8 November 4, 2004 <> I think they were snapped just not tightened. <> How much money? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cvfd1399 0 #9 November 4, 2004 Think if it was not connected and the passenger fliped out in front and on their back. On a hook up side note why do TI's and passengers connect or stay connected until 1k or whatever their dz's policy says. It seems like it would be a delay in a emergency situation to have to hook up and exit. I over heard once that if it is over regular diver emergency exit alt, but not much higher the TI and passenger ride it down no matter what? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dubbayab 0 #10 November 4, 2004 I think the relitave workshop released a statment saying that only one of the top hook up need to exit in emerengcy, now with that said I do not believe the T-I will go to terminal with out pulling. Or to attempt an emerengcy exit below reserve deployment altitude, thanks JP Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #11 November 4, 2004 I don't know if I understand what you wrote, but here's something to think about. While in an Aircraft emergency you might exit on a sport reserve at 1000AGL, on a tandem reserve I'm not going to be comfortable exiting much below 2000AGL with a passenger. They just don't open as fast. Therefor I will leave my student unhooked until atleast my minimum exit height so if we do crash we have a better chance of getting out of the wreckage should we survive. In reality since moving to a DZ with side seating benches in the A/C I don't hook up till about 9 or 10 grand. When I used to ride Caravans with the stradle type benches The student's lower connectors were hooked up as soon as the seat belts came off, with the rest of the procedure occuring about 9 or 10 grand.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tkhayes 348 #12 November 4, 2004 What sort of problem would you EXPECT to see during deployment? I see no issue with deployment time for this configuration. They will both be uprighted and such by the shoulders, same as any other deployment. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dubbayab 0 #13 November 5, 2004 >>What sort of problem would you EXPECT to see during deployment?<< Well TK, and I must first point out I know who you are, and I greatly respect you for your time in, but the girl was complaining about her butt and back. You see when he pulled the drouge release handle their bodies collided very violently, the kinda hit freeflyiers try to avoid. If I can figure out how to post it, I will post the entire video, so you can see the hit they took during trap door,still, this cannot be seen as a STABLE deployment or as a "hard opening" A stable deployment can still result in a vilent line over, and poor stability can lead to a square, stable, steerable canopy. Well there it is, rip it up! I still wanna know how much he is betting? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tkhayes 348 #14 November 5, 2004 fine, a rough opening, but I do not expect that it would be life threatening. Stable? I think so. should not affect canopy deployment in any way. Not saying I recommend it, I just do not see a deployment issue Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dubbayab 0 #15 November 5, 2004 Okeedooke! to all Tandem Instructors you have read it here first ...... there is no need to completly hook up, or to suck up all the slack in the straps. A good deployment is garenteed by TK Hayes and Skymonkey oneThere it is, rip it up!!!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
crotalus01 0 #16 November 5, 2004 look at the picture very carefully. i am way low on jump numbers but ive seen a lot of tandems at the dz...the passenger is pushing into the TMs stomach. the passenger is also in a dearched position, almost knee-flying. there is nothing visible between the TMs legstrap and the passengers lower attachment point. not saying it is photoshopped, but something about it just doesnt look right. it looks almost like a hybrid jump or a rodeo - except the "passenger" doesnt appear to be wearing a rig. anyways, weird pic. must have been a total bitch to land that, the passenger is a good 3 feet lower than the TM it appears. As for me and my house, we will serve the LORD... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tkhayes 348 #17 November 5, 2004 QuoteOkeedooke! to all Tandem Instructors you have read it here first ...... there is no need to completly hook up, or to suck up all the slack in the straps. A good deployment is garenteed by TK Hayes and Skymonkey one Did I say guaranteed? What I get tired of is someone posting a static photo in time and then declaring a hypothesis about the thing like something is terribly wrong. Same thing happened to one of my tandem masters years ago, a disgruntled employee sent a photo to the FAA and RWS and the guy lost his rating for life. A static 1/250 sec in time that meant SHIT! Does a static photo really reveal a lot of information? Sometimes, yes. I am offering an alternative viewpoint on what was displayed as a 'bad thing' I do not remember a tandem going in because side connectors were loose. disconnected - yes, but not from being loose. It should be addresses, tyes. It is not life threateneing, no. It is not an endorsement by me to do the same, however, I am trying to give the tandem master a break. Most people will not. nuff said - sheesh! Let's blow this thing completely out of proportion! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dubbayab 0 #18 November 5, 2004 Yeah, all I asked if it was possible to tighten them in drouge fall. I now believe in this photo it is hard because of the distance fron there bodies, if it were closer them maybe possible, but this would maybe be hard due to the fact that you have to lift there body weight to tighten up. A shot in time, a static photo, rating lost? The entire skydive was like this, this isn't just a shot from the hip Tk, it is the entire skydive position. OH did I mention I respect your opinionthere really is no room for anyone to give this Tandem Instructor a BREAK...... come on man he fucked up! \As for as for blowing it out of proportion, I asked a simple question, ( is it posible to snatch um up) you are the one who keeps defending him, and your self. I mean really is it the Tandem master fault for doing a sloppy job, or is it OK sometimes to goof!? I argued over the fact that there deployment wasn't stable and their bodies slammed together. You are arguing over a disgruntled employee who reported you to the FAA. Please make your point! Do you have one? WB Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BIGUN 1,483 #19 November 5, 2004 I have one. I don't see how this is productive in any way. It's hard enough to maintain a positive image to the public without unnecessary nonsense like this and the S/L picture. If you're one of them folks who just likes to stir up shit... How about doing it somewhere else.Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dubbayab 0 #20 November 5, 2004 Gee! I sorry Bigun' I thought these pictures were productive, >>I don't see how this is productive in any way.<< apparently I'm just wasting my time showing the public what can happen, I am verrrrrrrrrrrrry sorry I have waisted you preciousy time. Maybe I'm a Troll, yeah that it, a troll with an agenda! sorry again but no bigun. >>How about doing it somewhere else<< where else do you recomend? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Deuce 1 #21 November 5, 2004 Having read the thread, why not be up front enough to just post "Tandem Instructor Errs- picture attached!" I'm guessing some line twists during the opening? Maybe a minor spin up that had the passenger careening around a bit? Hasn't happened to me, but that's what I'd guess happened. The system I jump will support the passenger/student with only one of the shoulder attachment points connected. Dude, it's a tandem, not a roller coaster ride. You got some personal gripe with that tandem master? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dubbayab 0 #22 November 5, 2004 I'm guessing some line twists during the opening? Maybe a minor spin up that had the passenger careening around a bit? Hasn't happened to me, but that's what I'd guess happened. << It is late and I have to go, I have had fun playing with you guys but my mom is calling me for dinner. with all the BS that has been posted......lets remember to scinch up our tandems and to train our students right please, They are our future brothersand sisters! where I come from there are no excuses, lets stop making them up. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Deuce 1 #23 November 5, 2004 Home DZ: No home dropzone entered. License Org: uspa Number of Jumps: 650 Disciplines of Choice: Freeflying Freeflying Photographer: Yes You don't come from anywhere. You're just throwing rocks from the darkness. What goes around, comes around. Edit: This is a first! You got me curious! You are a troll! Remember your "Should I sue" thread where you reported your wife broke her back? Quotedubbayab Jumps License In sport : 650 : D : Apr 14, 2004, 11:00 PM Post #20 of 115 (1377 views) Registered: Dec 2, 2002 Posts: 156 Re: [Kris] Should I sue/ What do you think? [In reply to] I'm not trying to get rich, Kris. But IF the manufacture is at fault I want to altert the community to the problem, and cover our medical bills that is all. I have been in the sport for almost 10 years and am an Instructor.I have lost many friend, and have gained many new ones. The question I posted has not been answered by anyone yet. Should or Would you Sue? Gosh, all those folks really felt bad for you, too. 65 jumps a year is pretty low for an instructor to stay current. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dubbayab 0 #24 November 5, 2004 Man, I don't know why I do it? It is like I'm wasting my own time. I mean really it is only I/O or binary. You mean nothing to me, all the shit you can dig up still dosen't put you in the class lower than the party that lost the election. >>You don't come from anywhere. You're just throwing rocks from the darkness. << careful one of thoes rocks might just dot your eye one of these days! bitch >Edit: This is a first! You got me curious! You are a troll! Remember your "Should I sue" thread where you reported your wife broke her back? << Troll buster! to you dude. why do you waste your time on what you call a troll? was my picture compelling? were you allured in to a false since of reality? still you felt the need to post.. I realy do not want to continue this with you I was having words with real T-I and their view points on jumping " the meaning of my post" a QUESTION ABOUT IF ONE COULD TIGHTEN UP IN DROUG FALL! you have nothing pertinent to add just trollin' so (PA edited out by slotperfect), later. again you are a waste of time, next time I will not acknowledgre you Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dubbayab 0 #25 November 5, 2004 Post:>> Having read the thread, why not be up front enough to just post "Tandem Instructor Errs- picture attached!" I'm guessing some line twists during the opening? Maybe a minor spin up that had the passenger careening around a bit? Hasn't happened to me, but that's what I'd guess happened. The system I jump will support the passenger/student with only one of the shoulder attachment points connected. Dude, it's a tandem, not a roller coaster ride. You got some personal gripe with that tandem master?<< you have a lot of nerve......... a personal gripe with me is more like it, ass Bigun there is no need for you to tell me to play fair on this one! WB Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
