foreverfree 0 #1 September 13, 2004 Whereas the standard compensation for a student rig or sport rig pack job seems to US 5 $, there seems to be a difference in the standards when it comes to Tandem Pack jobs varying from US 10 $ to US 15 $. Any particular reason? or is it ... " My way or the Highway?"BORN FREE LIVING FREE FOREVER FREE FALLING FREE Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 20 #2 September 13, 2004 Tandems are larger, take more time/effort and introduce a whole lot more issues in terms of packing. Not to mention most tandems are packed on a we need it in 8 minutes type of deal.Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkymonkeyONE 4 #3 September 13, 2004 You know, it might take me an extra two minutes to pack a tandem. The only reason for that is that none of our tandem mains have packing tabs. It also takes a tad longer to set the brakes. Beyond that, I don't really see why we pay twice the amount to pack tandems. We pay five bucks to pack student and rental mains and ten bucks to pack tandems. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #4 September 13, 2004 QuoteWhereas the standard compensation BWAHAHAHA!!! Quotethere seems to be a difference in the standards BWAHAHAHAHA! No really! Tell another one!---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 20 #5 September 13, 2004 For me setting the 3 ring and rerunning the ripcords added at least 2 minutes. Those Vector2 tandems take longer to pack then the newer rigs.Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Remster 30 #6 September 13, 2004 Maybe I'm a snob and all, but WTF does a discussion about packers have to do with instructors???Remster Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydiver30960 0 #7 September 13, 2004 I think the answer is obvious: the DZ, and I as the instructor who is hanging his life and the life of his student under that canopy, is (are?) paying for QUALITY. I have not YET had any tandem cutaways, but have had a couple close calls and feel that extra cash is well spent. Only the best packers at our DZ are allowed to pack tandems, they go the extra mile to make sure my student and I make it down without any nasty surprises, and are (as they should be) rewarded for their extra efforts. "Take care of the people that take care of you." nuff sed Elvisio "love my packers" Rodriguez Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkymonkeyONE 4 #8 September 14, 2004 QuoteMaybe I'm a snob and all, but WTF does a discussion about packers have to do with instructors??? I pack my own tandem rig, as do many of the tandem instructors in this forum. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Remster 30 #9 September 14, 2004 Makes sense then....Remster Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tspillers 0 #10 September 14, 2004 The instructors who pack their own tandems should appreciate that there is more pay that packing a sport rig. On the other hand, I think he was commenting more about a variance in tandem packs. He was saying sport are consistent $5 and tandems prices aren't always $10. The places I have jumped, they have all been $10. Todd I am not totally useless, I can be used as a bad example. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
crutch 0 #11 September 14, 2004 QuoteI pack my own tandem rig, as do many of the tandem instructors in this forum. As do I, maybe that is why I have 3300 tandems and no reserve rides?blue skies, art Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 643 #12 September 15, 2004 QuoteMaybe I'm a snob and all, but WTF does a discussion about packers have to do with instructors??? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> When it gets really busy, instructors have to stop jumping until they repack enough tandem rigs to launch the next airplane. For example, we usually only have one packer in Pitt Meadows, so after we have flown 3 King Air loads back-to-back, we have a dozen unpacked tandem rigs. The chief pilot and senior TIs have to pack a few before we can re-start the airplane. At smaller DZs, TIs do all their own packing, especially if they own the rig. It is the old decision: whether to trust your life to bumbling amateurs, or do it all yourself? Pitt Meadows pays CAN$5 per student rig, $6 per sport rig and $10 per tandem rig. I am going to ask for a raise next year. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Liemberg 0 #13 September 16, 2004 QuoteAny particular reason? Suply and (the elasticity of) demand? "Whoever in discussion adduces authority uses not intellect but memory." - Leonardo da Vinci A thousand words... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
foreverfree 0 #14 September 16, 2004 Packing is an integral part of the training process. Teaching a student how to pack should be high on the priority list for any Parachute Jump Instructor. Compensation for packing does very much have a place in this column. Compensation for Packing Instruction should also be discussed in this column.BORN FREE LIVING FREE FOREVER FREE FALLING FREE Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
foreverfree 0 #15 September 16, 2004 How did we come up with the magic figure of 10$? 10= 2 times 5 Therefore , 1 tandem = 2 times sport rig when it comes to packing them. Twice as hard? Twice as difficult? Twice as time consuming? Twice the effort? Try packing a brand new zero porosity parachute canopy in a tiny sports rig container? vs packing a used and abused Tandem canopy in a used and abused tandem container rig.?BORN FREE LIVING FREE FOREVER FREE FALLING FREE Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
foreverfree 0 #16 September 16, 2004 When you dont really see that DZ through the clouds do you Jump out? When you dont really see that silver reserve handle do you just reach for something you dont really see and yank it out? When you dont really see that the AAD or Cypress is turned on do you assume it is on and its functioning properly? When you dont really see that Altimeter do you just assume its time to pull? Especially when it comes to skydiving instruction when you dont really see that your student in freefall is really or not really understanding your hand signals do you WAIT?BORN FREE LIVING FREE FOREVER FREE FALLING FREE Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
foreverfree 0 #17 September 16, 2004 Some DZs pay $10 Some DZs pay $15 Some DZs pay $12 Standard=constant level=not variable levelsBORN FREE LIVING FREE FOREVER FREE FALLING FREE Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkymonkeyONE 4 #18 September 16, 2004 QuoteWhen you dont really see that DZ through the clouds do you Jump out? When you dont really see that silver reserve handle do you just reach for something you dont really see and yank it out? When you dont really see that the AAD or Cypress is turned on do you assume it is on and its functioning properly? When you dont really see that Altimeter do you just assume its time to pull? Especially when it comes to skydiving instruction when you dont really see that your student in freefall is really or not really understanding your hand signals do you WAIT? I don't understand what any of those questions have to do with the topic of the thread. What are you leading up to? As to your questions, though, here are my answers: No No No No Yes, right up to the time that he or she reaches the hard-deck and forces me to pull for them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
foreverfree 0 #19 September 16, 2004 old is not the same as new. new is not the same as old. Especially when it comes to packing , each rig is different and each container has its own peculiarities. vector II old tandem rigs are not the same as new tandem rigs. old used parachute canopies are not the same as brand new parachute canopies. some tandem rigs take longer to pack than other tandem rigs. some packers take longer to pack than other packers. doesnt neccessarily mean that those who pack faster neccessarily check anything and everything as they pack.BORN FREE LIVING FREE FOREVER FREE FALLING FREE Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
foreverfree 0 #20 September 16, 2004 What I am leading upto is something that you see quite clearly but do not really understand completely. lets express this in terms of %age. $10 is approx 67% of $15? $10 is double that of $5 $15 is triple that of $5 Another method, Lets start at $5 which is a standard compensation for a sport rig/student rig pack job. lets add another $5 to it. So what was the %age increase ? 5+5=10 ..in effect a 100% increase....or you just doubled your income. lets add another $5 to this and what do we get? 5+5+5=$15 which is a 150% increase from $10 for tandems at many DZs. or you just trebled your income. Are you not understanding this simple fact that just because these rigs have a few irregularities or exceptions not found on our sport rigs,our basic standard which was established at $5 only, in the beginning ,when there was no tandem rig in the first place, our standards , from thence, have lost that value of a constant of $5 and now turned into a variable which fluctuates from say $10 to sometimes $ 15 in this industry. You do say NO to the questions I posted and am I not glad that you DO SAY NO. But , not only YOU or I or Me, But Everybody else around us IN THIS INDUSTRY due to some reason unknown to me and to you accept this variable standard for compensation of packing tandems from DZ to DZ.BORN FREE LIVING FREE FOREVER FREE FALLING FREE Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkymonkeyONE 4 #21 September 16, 2004 Anyone else not get this guy's point? There is no established rule which states what an employer in the skydiving business has to pay an instructor or packaho. WTS (West Tennessee Skydiving) used to pay a whopping $75 to tandem masters for a single jump! Most other places vary between $25 and $30 (plus packing). What a DZ pays is based on a number of things: -what they are charging students for the jump -cost of living in the area perhaps -what other nearby DZ's are paying in order to keep their instructors from bailing Packing concessions are quite a new phenomenon. Most DZ's have no separate, contracted concession (or school for that matter) and simply trade packing for free jumps or training. That said, the places which DO have them pay what they can afford and still keep enough to put food in the concessionaire's mouth. If a place pays you more to pack a tandem, it's likely that they have less (or no) overhead. Places which pay you less obviously have to pay a monthly fee to the DZ in order to have sole right to the concession. Chuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Remster 30 #22 September 16, 2004 Chuck.. thats what I mean when I asked about what this had to do with Instructors. Remster Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andrewwhyte 1 #23 September 16, 2004 Maybe it's just because there is no "Non-Professional" Skydiving Industry Employees Forum. I do most of the weekday packing during peak season and all of it during the curb season. On weekends anyone approved can pack. This generally means one guy. Keith went with us to a boogie in Kamloops this spring and was showing a marked reluctance to pack the tandem gear. Why? because he could pack two sport rigs in the same time while exerting less effort. Tandem rigs are heavy. They require more effort every step in the process. When you stop doing what you are doing and help out by packing a rig it may not be that obvious, but pack tandems continuously for a day and it becomes more clear. If it is still not clear to you, cut your rate to $5.00 and watch the unpacked nylon pile up on the floor. Compare packing a brand new set400 in a brand new Strong container to packing an 800 jump Stilletto 120 in a ten year old Vector II built for a 135. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydiver30960 0 #24 September 18, 2004 ... some pay $18, $20 if you're a rigger... Elvisio "tandem packers are our friends" Rodriguez Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkymonkeyONE 4 #25 September 20, 2004 I don't buy the "watch the nylon stack up" part of your post. Where I jump, the first things that get packed are the rigs which most need to be repacked: tandems and student/rental rigs. If you are going to pack for our school, then that is your priority, pure and simple. Most dropzones don't have big packing concessions like Eloy and Perris where you can choose a packer and get your sport main packed at their convenience. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
