"Requests" from students

[PhreeZone 20]

What are everyones thoughts towards students requesting certian instructors during their student progression? Is it different if its a Level 1 tandem vs a Cat H student that only has had you as their instructor so far?

Is there ever a point that you would'nt honor a students request to have you as their instructor?

Do you mention to your students that they can request you in the future or is it something that manifest says?

I realize that some students click with a certian instructor and learn faster, or are able to understand things better. But does forcing a student to vary their instructor help them at all?

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[riggerrob 643]

Yes, varying instructors usually helps students as they hear the same material explained from different angles.
Students vary in their learning styles. Some are kinetic learners, some are auditory learners, etc.

Students can request all they want, but ultimately it is manifest's decision. "Sorry, but Andrew is the only PFF instructor on duty today. You will have to jump with Andrew. Yes, I know that Rob is also here, but he is busy with tandems. Now Andrew will be with you in a few minutes."

I have politely declined to jump with several slender students simply because I am too big and fall too fast.

There can be a down-side to doing all your training jumps with only one instructor.
We used to have an instructor who was very popular with certain students. He gained popularity by letting students "slide" on certain certificate requirements. The rest of the instructors hated him because we had to do lots of remedial training to fill in the gaps in "his" syllabus, which "loosely" resembled CSPA's syllabus.
We eventually fired his lazy ass!

[jlmiracle 7]

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Is there ever a point that you would'nt honor a students request to have you as their instructor?

Yes, if I was feeling ill or injured.

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Do you mention to your students that they can request you in the future or is it something that manifest says?

Not usually at least not like that. I tell them that they may find an instructor they feel more comfortable with and they can request that JM, but they may have to wait longer to jump waiting on a particular JM. Some student could careless who they jump with, some prefer some type consistancy.

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But does forcing a student to vary their instructor help them at all?

I don't believe it helps them. Like I stated above, some student can be comfortable and RELAXED with any JM, some get freaked out by some instructors approach and presentation. I'm not saying they don't need to talk to or ask questions of another instructor, just not everyone clicks with everyone and I want to give the students every opportunity to succeed.

We need to focus on the Student and not the money or whose turn it is. If 5 students show up and they all want the same JM(s) and are prepared to wait for said JM(s) then that request should be honored.

Judy

Be kinder than necessary because everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle.

[PhreeZone 20]

Side question...

Do you recommend that students rotate instructors if it looks like they may be forming an "instructor crush"?

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[tspillers 0]

We have a sign that explains they can request someone, but it may mean they have to wait much longer. (much longer and worded much better).

We also have a great team and an unwritten policy of if you can't fix it in 2 dives, get someone else involved. We will pair a student with who we feel the is the best instructor or coach to teach that student a particular skill. For example, this guy is really floating and this coach could do a better job observing and teaching a track.

Todd

I am not totally useless, I can be used as a bad example.

[SkymonkeyONE 4]

We don't tollerate any student/instructor dating (or simply wrassling) on our DZ. It's cheap and takes away your credibility as "teacher." We WILL on the other hand allow a person to jump with the person who brought them in. We tell them right away that they would get up in the air faster if they went with the next available instructor, but some still choose to wait it out. I had one five-time repeat tandem passenger who just hated to jump with anyone else. I think she eventually made a jump with John Hawke, but I may be mistaken.

Chuck

[Andrewwhyte 1]

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Students can request all they want, but ultimately it is manifest's decision. "Sorry, but Andrew is the only PFF instructor on duty today. You will have to jump with Andrew. Yes, I know that Rob is also here, but he is busy with tandems. Now Andrew will be with you in a few minutes."

Are you suggesting that there has been a student who preferred to learn from your fat bumbling ass than me? I find that hard to believe.

[FrogNog 1]

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Are you suggesting that there has been a student who preferred to learn from your fat bumbling ass than me? I find that hard to believe.

Confucious said*: "Sometimes the best teacher is the worst teacher, because he forces the student to learn on his own."

(* Actually, Confucious did not say that.)

-=-=-=-=-
Pull.

[crutch 0]

Chuck is right with no personal relationships between students and instructors..period. Now, after that, we try our best to honor student requests as far as instructors go. The more relaxed and comfortable, the better the learning curve. Forcing an instructor on someone because they are free at the moment, doesn't do anyone any good. On top of all of that, doesn't it give one incentive to improve your instructor skills if your students aren't allowed to request you.

blue skies,

art

[GravityGirl 0]

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Side question...

Do you recommend that students rotate instructors if it looks like they may be forming an "instructor crush"?

Who has a crush on you?

And my serious answer is, "Not as long as the student is truely listening and learning." If they are turning all doe eyed, then I'll pass them off on the most militant instructor available.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Peace and Blue Skies!
Bonnie ==>Gravity Gear!

[PhreeZone 20]

>Who has a crush on you?

I let my ratings lapse over the winter. But I do know too many instructors that were sleeping with their students

What brought this up was I was observing at 3 seperate DZ's that it was seeming like the full time skydiving instructors were more likely to mention something about requests for in the future then the weekend warriors were. At one DZ the tandem instructors were even expressing in the debrief from first jumps about the possibility of requesting them for future jumps and stuff. I thought that this was very unprofessional, and wanted to see what others thought.

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[jlmiracle 7]

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But I do know too many instructors that were sleeping with their students

I dated my first JM. After we started dating he did not act as JM on any of my remaining AFF jumps. Now part of the problems with this is everyone assumes that he was giving me the ALL the information I needed, and, well, he wasn't and didn't. I was way behind the curve when it came to packing and general knowledge of sports equipment, etc.

Dating your instructor is not a good idea.

Judy

Be kinder than necessary because everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle.

[kelpdiver 2]

from the other side: I think without cause to do otherwise you should honor the student's requests. Unless they're 2 day wonders they'll likely get a lot of variation. If it looks like they're getting dependent on having that one AFF-I, figure out how to gently push them onward.

I liked working with the same instructor on a given day. Otherwise how could the second one give me a valid comparison between the two with regards to exit, leg position, etc? Or effectively followthru from the debrief on the first one. (I never did more than 2 a day).

[popsjumper 2]

From one student's point of view (mine):

I would have preferred having the same instructor throughout the entire training course because I got conflicting information on flying techniques from different instructors.

Example - one instructor told me to do turns one way and a different instructor bitched me out for doing it that way and made me do it HIS way on the next jump. All it did was confuse me and delayed the learning process.

I think consistency is the key for students and learning second and third techniques to obtain the same result should be saved for later as basic skills build up.

I hope none of you guys would deny a student's request for a different instructor for any reason.
After all, what's the objective here....to teach the student some way to save his butt, right? Saving his butt with style and grace ALWAYS comes later, eh?

Blue Skies to all you guys having the balls to teach newbies to fly - my hat is off to you. ( You too, ladies....you usually have bigger balls than the men do!

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[mr2mk1g 10]

I had exactly the same problem during my training.

I did the full static line course and for my tracking was shown how to do a max track. Instructor who observed it (different to who gave the training) told me I shouldn't be doing a max track as a student as it's too unstable and difficult to control. He re-trained me to do a delta track explaning why it was superior for me at my level.

I went up with another instructor who failed me as I had not transitioned from the delta into a max track and had therefore not demonstrated the full skill set required to pass the level. OK...

I then made sure I grabbed the guy who was to be observing me on my next jump and made sure I clarified exactly what HE wanted me to do, regardless of what I had been trained.

Ironically I was informed by this last guy that either would do for him as they both demonstrate the basic skill required.