using two pilot chutes?

[lucky508 0]

I am having a longer delay than I would like when jumping my Jumbo PC. It is set up in its original configuration. 3 pin container, POD and MA1 pilot chute. I’m doing low altitude hop n pops. Originally I was experiencing a six second plus delay from pilot chute launch to opening. I attribute this to three factors. Low speed pilot chute launch (not terminal) on exit, wimpy MA1 pilot chute spring and size, and double stowing of the crown lines. I double stowed the crown lines as was my habit from jumping PCs in sleeves. Since this PC is in a POD and cannot experience “bag slump” I don’t think double stowing is needed and will not do it again. I’m going to continue to do hop n pops and am thinking that adding another pilot chute will help. I know that back in the day this was done and would like to hear how effective it was/is. I’m also concerned about over stressing the crown lines. Two of my crown lines were already repaired when I bought this PC and I don’t want to cause any further damage.

Thanks,
Cael

[stratostar 5]

Try using a newer pilot chute, I have used all kinds and even two MA-1's, went back to ones made in the last two decades. But I do still have and use MA-1's only they were NOS.

you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

[darkwing 5]

A single MA-1 is pretty marginal for a Jumbo PC, especially at sub-terminal. In the old days I probably would have recommended a HotDog or a Grabber, or similar pilot chute. Going to double MA-1s can work, but can cause other problems-- packing, etc. I recommend a higher drag single pilot chute. You might be able to find one, or at least one with a serviceable spring, with some olde-tyme loft. If you can find a spring it is easy to make the rest of the pilot chute. Maybe a messed up pilot chute from a modern reserve could be bought cheap and re-manufactured.

-- Jeff
My Skydiving History

[councilman24 37]

Grabber and other spring pilot chutes are still available. Magnum PC's are used on softie PEPs.

At paragear here http://www.paragear.com/templates/parachutes.asp?group=27&level=1

They do want a lot of money for them. ESPECIALLY the MA-1's at $245. Mmmm, not sure how many I have in storage.

I like the photo of double pilot chutes with one up and one down.

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

[lucky508 0]

I have a couple of other MA-1’s in good shape and I’d rather not lay out the $ for the grabber if I don’t have to. If I add another pilot chute should it have a separate bridle line or be attached to the single bridle line that already has a pilot chute on it?

Thanks,
Cael

[councilman24 37]

I just think your asking for trouble and not solving your problem with adding another MA-1. I want to keep the ones I have but any DZ that's been in bussiness awhile and doesn't through things away ought to have a box full.

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

[JerryBaumchen 1,445]

Hi lucky,

I would recommend not going to the double pilot chutes; but $$$ can be a big persuader.

Attach them both to the end of a single bridle; at least that is how it was done 'back in the day.'

JerryBaumchen

[Andy9o8 2]

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Going to double MA-1s can work, but can cause other problems-- packing, etc. I recommend a higher drag single pilot chute.

Agreed, based on old memory cells.

[airtwardo 7]

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Hi lucky,

I would recommend not going to the double pilot chutes; but $$$ can be a big persuader.

Attach them both to the end of a single bridle; at least that is how it was done 'back in the day.'

JerryBaumchen

I wouldn't use two under any circumstances, I use to watch a guy at pull time 'back in the day' and as often as not, one would be right-side-up and the other up-side-down..pulling against each other.



and IIRC, an MA1 had quite bit MORE drag that a Hotdog,(TSO'd) Hotshot(not TSO'd) or a Grabber(TSO?)...they just had longer/stronger springs.

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[howardwhite 6]

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I use to watch a guy at pull time 'back in the day' and as often as not, one would be right-side-up and the other up-side-down..pulling against each other.

Sort of like this?

HW

[JohnRich 4]

Six second delays - yikes!

Two pilot chutes won't help. They just fight each other for the same air, or each one tilts and spills air as they bump up against each other, so that each one is only half as effective as it should be. Thus, the two pilot chutes only give about the same drag as one.

Go to the hot dog or grabber pilot chutes. That's the ticket. There should be some old ones laying around in a rigger's attic.

[mccurley 1]

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Two pilot chutes won't help. They just fight each other for the same air, or each one tilts and spills air as they bump up against each other, so that each one is only half as effective as it should be. Thus, the two pilot chutes only give about the same drag as one.

Go to the hot dog or grabber pilot chutes. That's the ticket.

Could not be more correct.
I have seen lots with one up and one down or sideways.
I can't actually recall having seen both give 100% of drag.

Watch my video Fat Women
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eRWkEky8GoI

[airtwardo 7]

Quote

Quote

Two pilot chutes won't help. They just fight each other for the same air, or each one tilts and spills air as they bump up against each other, so that each one is only half as effective as it should be. Thus, the two pilot chutes only give about the same drag as one.

Go to the hot dog or grabber pilot chutes. That's the ticket.

Could not be more correct.
I have seen lots with one up and one down or sideways.
I can't actually recall having seen both give 100% of drag.

That or just sit up when ya pull...

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[lekstrom10k 0]

I totally agree about the one flipping over. I have seen it in person and on film. I always had best luck with a Grabber on rip cord rigs. I put PC's in my Wonder-hogs with no problems on the throw -out. .

[poppenhager 1]

Fall stable until forward speed stops(5-8sec) sit up pull and no more pc hesitations!!!!! POP D47***

[mjosparky 4]

How long is your bridle? What will happen if the bridle is too short is the PC hits the end still carrying energy and rebounds back onto the container. Make it at least 6 feet long and see if that helps.

Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[SEREJumper 1]

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Fall stable until forward speed stops(5-8sec) sit up pull and no more pc hesitations!!!!! POP D47***

Totally agree with above. Siting up on to knees after pull will help greatly in getting rid of the burble. I know guys doing hop and pops every week using this technique. Although they are using 28' rounds with MA-1's. Practice the exit technique on a full altitude jump with your modern gear first.

We're not fucking flying airplanes are we, no we're flying a glorified kite with no power and it should be flown like one! - Stratostar

[lucky508 0]

Thanks for all the great comments and advise. That’s exactly what I was looking for. I’ve ditched the two pilot chute idea. I looked around and found a big “hot dog” pilot chute. I will be putting that on my rig this weekend.


ATW!
Cael

[steve1 5]

The grabber pilot chutes were just coming out, about the time I quit jumping for an extended period. They sure looked like the way to go.

I used to have a lot of trouble with MA-1 pilot chutes, getting caught in my burble. This probably wouldn't be a problem on a hop and pop, but the springs on some MA-1's were really weak. I was glad to see someone finally invent a pilot chute with a long powerful spring (like the grabber).

I knew people who packed two pilot chutes. I never thought that one would fill with air and reduce the effectiveness of the other. Thanks for telling me! I'm now putting together a para-commander rig, and was thinking of doing just that.

I used to sit up on opening, and sometimes even elbow my back pack to get things coming off my back. A single MA-1 usually worked fine, but about the time you were a little low a hesitation would occur and scare the crap out of you.

Another worry was having a hesitation with an MA-1, having it flop around, and then snag on a bungie (pack opening band). On the old 4-pin (B-12) back pack's this was a worry. I never saw it happen, but we were told they could snag a pilot chute.....

[stratostar 5]

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I never saw it happen, but we were told they could snag a pilot chute.....

It can and will, I know someone who went in because of that. If you POB's are not still attached when you land then they are to loose.

you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

[tbrown 26]

Go to the hot dog or grabber pilot chutes. That's the ticket. There should be some old ones laying around in a rigger's attic.

[fastphil 0]

When I had a PC MKI I used a Grabber. I think the tapered spring compressed and stacked better than the Hot Dog's straight spring.

Off topic, but while I owned this rig I was commuting mostly by motorcycle. One day, as I stepped off the bike after a fast ride to the DZ, the rig popped open and the Grabber landed several feet behind the bike. And yes, I sometimes wonder how I've lived to be 53...

[councilman24 37]

I actually have a ParaCommander Pilot Chute on mine. I think, it'd been 10 years since it was open. It's bigger but has a wimpy short spring. May be an MA-1 spring.

Or couse the way I got mine to open was to open in a track. I used it for my first free fall and for 80 jumps or so. Nobody ever told me to stop tracking and so I used to turn, track and pull when far enough. Took me awhile to realize what I was doing.

Of course the best was having 6 or 7 line twists most jumps.

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

[councilman24 37]

Howard,

Where was that photo? I was looking for one yesterday. I think there is one in Poynter's (older ones at least) manual but haven't looked. But I don't remember it being that one.

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

[ripcord4 0]

Get a Grabber or 44 Magnum pilot chute as discussed above. My 44 Mag will pull a sleeve-deployed SET-10 35' main off my back with no problem so I know it will work with your gear.