DB Cooper

[snowmman 3]

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Wouldn't they be visible at a couple miles?

Yes, they were visible at those distances but nowhere near as bright or attention getting as pulsed gas discharge strobes. They were like the old rotating cop car lights, but smaller.

377

single lights in the middle of dark are amazingly noticeable.

no stars because of the clouds that night?

(edit) I think it's just simple to ask the witness what other lights they saw that night. If they say "none" then they're full of shit.

That's the point. That there were other lights and the witness should be able to i.d. those, and say the fireball was something else, in addition to those lights.

And if they identify the other lights wrong, they're full of it also.

[377 22]

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There was a well known UFO hoax recently where some kids (they videoed the launch and revealed it after the UFO sightings made the news)

they tied road flares to weather ballons and let them go up in the sky at night. Very impressive. Lots of UFO calls.

We used to make UFOs using birthday candles, plastic bags from the dry cleaner, and a base made of taped together drinking straws to mount the candles on and hold the bottom of the bag open as the heat from the candles inflated it. The envelope eventually filled with light smoke and the flickering candles gave it a very eerie look.

We launched these and UFO reports were received. It made the local newspaper. They were essentially hot air balloons and worked really well. Later, for child safty, they started puting vent holes in the dry cleaning bags ending our use of them as balloons.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[snowmman 3]

wow good story.
And we worry about terrorists and planes.
The terrorists are in the cockpit!

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Saw this on Snow's 727 link, (has some tech errors but the basics are true):

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A TWA 727 was flying at cruise when the captain and FO got into an interesting discussion. One of them told the other that if they dropped the flaps a unit or two, they would cruise along much faster, really "get up on it" so to speak. The second pilot replied that by selecting flaps, the leading edge devices would extend. The first pilot said not to worry, they would just pull the corresponding circuit breaker. So they did and they cruised along, pleased with themselves.

Well, the flight engineer had stepped out of the cockpit to grab some coffee or use the lav and had missed the entire conversation. He came back in and, being a good engineer, scanned his panel, then the circuit breaker panel and found the breaker that the pilots had just pulled. So, he did his job and reset the breaker.

The slats deployed and the plane immediately became uncontrollable and went into a spin. The pilots tried to recover the aircraft, but the 727 continued to lose altitude at an alarming rate. The fact that it was a T-tail made it harder to recover because as the plane dove, the fuselage was washing out the airflow over the empennage. In desperation, one of the pilots decided to try extending the landing gear and it worked. The pilots were finally able to recover the aircraft after plunging several thousand feet. They made an emergency landing and the ground crew was amazed to see that the slats had been ripped off of the wings and one of the main gear struts was turned ninety degrees.

The passengers evacuated the aircraft (with shaky knees and more than a few bumps and bruises, I imagine) and the pilots reached over...and hit the ERASE button on the flight recorder. POOF! Evidence gone.

All relevant 727 evidence is destroyed, POOFED. That's just the way it is. Jo was right.

377

[377 22]

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wow good story.
And we worry about terrorists and planes.
The terrorists are in the cockpit!

You literally would not believe what bored cockpit crews have done. There were several unexplained DC 4 crashes... flying along just fine then wildly out of control and fatal crashes. Turned out it was crews fooling around with engaging the gust locks in flight. One crew managed to recover control and survived. They at first pretended not to know why the plane went inverted and control was lost but one broke rank and finally admitted that their little experiment had gone awry. No more similar accidents occurred.

Some early Lear Jets (model 24) had illegal "go fast" mods made that disabled a warning horn to allow unimpeded flight outside of their approved specs. Crashes did result.

The list goes on and on. They should let the guys up front take naps, surf the net, etc. If they get bored the only toys they have are right in front of them and it's called a control panel.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[georger 258]

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At about 8 pm they left their house and saw a low-flying plane to the west, heading south. They immediately saw a brightly glowing red object in the sky directly underneath the plane. It was so bright it illuminated the aircraft.

The object then burst into a glowing, fiery object and arced away to the west and then faded out. It was lit for about 5-7 seconds, 8 tops.

Couldn't this description be consistent with a ground launched rocket flare? I don't see why it necessarily came from the plane. The claimed illumination of the plane from below sounds a lot more like what you'd see from a ground launched flare. They make some pretty big ones for commercial marine use. Some have small parachutes that extend their time in the air.

The attempted suppression/intimidation of the witnesses makes no sense to me.

377

Could be a firework. It was Thanksgiving
Eve and the Ingrams were in town...

I and others have searched news reports - nothing.
No meteor/bolide reports for that evening in that
part of the US. The report center has nothing and
this is consistent with a flare or firework falling.

Galen's exact words are: " (1) no explosion seen or heard; (2) object gave off an intense glow of red, which eyewitnesses stated even lit-up part of the bottom of the aircraft....From eyewitnesses point of reference, it looked as though red object was shot out from rear of the aircraft and then arched-out to the west as it fell. (3) from the eyewitnesses position stated, and from direction the object was seen in the sky, it appears that the object was very near Orchards, WA (Vancouver suburb). Red object rapidly drifted due west of Vancouver towards the area of the Columbia River. ...saw a distinct reddish flame falling and arcing from the sky. It appeared to be trailing from a southbound aircraft. The reddish object drifted west, out towards the Columbia River in the vicinity of Sauvie Island. In a matter of seconds, it disappeared from view of the witnesses.
... I was the person who saw the red flaming light falling from the sky ..."

The altitude sounds lower than 10k feet. West of
VCR makes it sounds like someone coming in to
land at PDX. It begins out near Orchard and ends
west of VCR/PDX?

The report of the FBI telling someone to STFU sounds totally bogus to me. If the report happened it sounds like someone other than FBI agents. You
guys never miss a chance to get in a dig at Ralph.
How would Ralph know if it wasn't FBI agents? You
always seem to assume the FBi is everywhere all
the time and knows, or should know, everything.
Weber Effect!

It could be someone shot a flare on Thanksgiving eve, at an incoming plane bound for PDX. I would
check who landed on that date and time. It might
have been Bohan.

I value Bruce's reports. They always lead to something.

Does anyone seriously think these people said nothing further, to friends and family and in their church circle if their story had merit? Why would Tosaw (a former FBI agent) receive a story like this and fail to check it out, if the story was crucial? That doesn't sound like the Richard Tosaw I know! And
that certainly does not account for normal human behavior, in the Faith Normal Pentacost Church ?

You need to call Marie at 000-3E5-953P and get to the bottom of this. She heard the story last Tuesday,
the day after.

The track from Orchard to west of Vancouver would
seem to violate everything we know about thw winds?
So obviously this object was not drifting but propelled. And it was falling. Or landing at PDX,
in heavy cross winds, sleet, and rain.

[snowmman 3]

"...And Duane shall have manifested himself, a star shall come forth from the East variegated in hue and shining brilliantly, and seven other stars shall surround it and make war on it from all sides, three times a day for seventy days, before the eyes of the whole world. The one star shall fight against the seven with rays of fire flashing on every side, and it shall smite them until they are extinguished' (Zohar 3:7b, 8a).

I'm thinking this paragraph prophesied the fireball that would announce Duane's arrival, and that it's brightness made the anti-collision lights on the plane (the other stars) unnoticeable.

(edit) and Flight 305 did originate from the East.

[snowmman 3]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flare_gun

Note this happened only 10 days after Duane hijacked 305.
Could Duane have been at the Zappa concert in Switzerland?

Or was hangdiver there? And if so, why?. Note the band's name "Mothers of Invention" eerily recalls the patents associated with the air pneumatic devices we discussed.


"On December 4, 1971 at the Montreux Jazz Festival in Switzerland an audience member ("some stupid with a flare gun") fired a flare during a performance by Frank Zappa and his band, the Mothers of Invention. The flare ignited the ceiling of the entertainment complex of the Montreux Casino at Lake Geneva.

Zappa shouted "Fire!" but initially the audience thought it was all part of the show. The resulting fire burned down the entire casino.


Was this the incident that hangdiver was discussing, when someone fired a flare and lit a chair on fire?

The band Deep Purple witnessed the event and wrote about it in their song "Smoke on the Water," released on their 1972 LP Machine Head"

[snowmman 3]

from above
"The band Deep Purple witnessed the event and wrote about it in their song "Smoke on the Water," released on their 1972 LP Machine Head"

The last track on the album is "Space Truckin'"
The tracks:

Highway Star
Maybe I'm A Leo
Pictures Of Home
Never Before
Smoke On The Water
Lazy
Space Truckin'

There is an odd reference to a fireball

We had a lot of luck on Venus
We always had a ball on Mars
Meeting all the groovey people
We've rocked the Milky Way so far
We danced around with Borealice
We're space truckin' round the the stars
Come on let's go Space Truckin'

Remember when we did the moonshot
And Pony Trekker led the way
We'd move to the Canaveral moonstop
And everynaut would dance and sway
We got music in our solar system
We're space truckin' round the stars
Come on let's go Space Truckin'

The fireball that we rode was moving
But now we've got a new machine
Yeah Yeah Yeah Yeah the freaks said
Man those cats can really swing
They got music in their solar system
They've rocked around the Milky Way
They dance around the Borealice
They're Space Truckin' everyday
Come on

from http://www.oldielyrics.com/lyrics/deep_purple/space_truckin.html

[skyjack71 0]

Wish we had ALL of the witness accounts given in those few days after the crime. Might be an interesting way to track the actual fight pattern, but I assure the actual flight pattern is forthcoming in the near future.

I had contacts back in 2001 when Margie Boule did some articles on Cooper/Weber. If I had known then what I know now - I could have utilized those to help track the plane. I tried to lay the few addresses I kept, over the route, but they were all over the place.

There is one putting the 727 East of Ariel - on the Eastern Tip of Lake Merwin (this one would make Jerry happy).

More than one accounting putting the plane over the Heisson area and then just East of the Scholls Airport in the Forth Plaines area...and multiple sightings West of Camas as it passed over the Columbia into the Oregon area where again the sightings placed the plane East of Portland. It was believe any sightings directly over Vancouver was another plane and NOT the highjacked plane.

I just love it when I hear someone say - It passed right over us - BUT, I wasn't home that night or at work that night. There are many things I have not talked about because they didn't seem important. I presumed the FBI had already connected the sighting with the flight path. AT least until this forum started to discuss the flight path and now witness accounts.

When I looked up Sauvie Island - that one is a stretch of the imagination. This means they were putting the plane right in the path of the PDX - that did NOT happen. Those who KNOW, know Cooper did NOT go over Vancouver. It may have "tipped" Orchards due to the reports of the sounds of a plane flying very low. Those who did not know about the hijacking heard the noise and went outside, because it sound like a plane in trouble. Most of the "sighting" did not claimed they could see the plane - but heard the plane.

I live in an area between 2 airports and five bases. The larger planes on an over cast day with high moisture - sound lower (I don't know if they are lower or if it has something to do with how sound is carried in certain weather conditions). I personally have gone outside because of very loud sounding planes - and one I could actually see the rivets on the bottom of the plane - that one was scary.

What is SCARIER is that I was told these are student pilots who have to let the plane - (I didn't understand this), but they said "STALL" and then pull it out.
These are large transport planes for moving lots of materials. Now we are getting even more traffic because of another division coming in here...these new one will be fast NOISY planes.

I do not keep up with the names of the planes and I choose to ignore the write-ups because all these planes make me nervous.

The other Fl town I lived in had a training center for helicopters - one landing and take off area I could walk to from my house. One actually brushed one of the huge Oaks in my yard - I reported that incident. The person who took the call told me one student pilot had been disciplined more than one time for the same thing - that it would not happen again...it didn't - at least as long as I lived there.

Okay - off topic - better than thinking about Social Security and telephones not working and neighbors growing weeds. I have lived with chest pains and headaches and arm pains and relying on a tranquilizer to calm me down..recently (yes, the Dr. ordered some tests today). At least I am conditioned to the reactions of the thread when I make a post and it takes my mind off of what is happening in this day to day world seniors live in.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[snowmman 3]

Jo said " but I assure the actual flight pattern is forthcoming in the near future. "

That would be good. How?

Jo said "If I had known then what I know now"

What do you know now? I can't see that anything identifies the flight path more than the radar map? Am I missing something?

If people want to ignore that map, then there's nothing that identifies the flight path to any degree of accuracy.

[Orange1 0]

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There is an odd reference to a fireball

Yeah, in the Bible too. Maybe that prophecy was actually about Cooper...

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[hangdiver 1]

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Or was hangdiver there? And if so, why?.

Nope wasn't there, but researching the Cooper hijacking event weird coincidences always seem to pop up.
It seems the crew seats and passenger seats in 727's were manufactured by the Weber Aircraft Company.

WEBER
801135-600 10-3091-4 Pilot Seat
Boeing 727,737 series

http://www.aviationqualitygroup.com/html/capabilities.html

picture of Weber seat

I don't know if it's relevant to the event but interesting anyway.

We already know Duane was Cooper but maybe he got booted from the company and that was his grudge.
This would also explain Duane's knowledge of 727s.

"Mans got to know his limitations"
Harry Callahan

[377 22]

Weber also made the ejection seats for the USAF F 106 chase planes.

http://www.f-106deltadart.com/ejection_seat.htm

Maybe Duane smuggled a Weber ejection seat rocket onto the 727 and somehow used it as a speed retarder for his high speed exit. That would explain the red fireball and arcing trajectory. Duane was not only a Ranger but a top notch aircraft escape system engineer.

This Weber system allowed Duane to descend safely from high trees in the Death woods.

http://www.google.com/patents/about?id=U6gsAAAAEBAJ&dq=weber+parachute

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[377 22]

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Jo said " but I assure the actual flight pattern is forthcoming in the near future. "

Snow said: That would be good. How?

Rev Dr. Mohammed from Nigeria has contacted Jo. He has the SAGE radar tapes in a chest held by a security company in Belgium. Jo needs only to pay the storage fees and transfer taxes and the Cooper plane's flightpath will be precisely known.

http://media.tiscali.co.uk/images/galleries/home-garden/homestoragesolutions/originals/maharanitrunk.jpg

http://www.popsci.com/files/imagecache/photogallery_image/articles/NASA-Tape-Image-2.jpg

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[377 22]

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=3796021;page=unread#unread

Sad story, student jumper on 18th or 19th jump.

Was this your DZ Orange?

Seems to be some question as to whether an AAD was used.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[snowmman 3]

getting close. starting to feel like real work though.

I'm also having my doubts about the 666 prophecy.

My interpretation was that if 377 posts first, that Cooper himself will appear as the last poster on page 666.

But now the fireball and associated prophecies have gotten me all confused.

What if the prophecy is wrong? What if Cooper doesn't appear?
I guess all cults have this problem...Do we bunker up and wait for the FBI?

[377 22]

I know I wont get post 666, and that's OK.

This is a skydiver forum. If something is desirable, another skydiver will make a run at it, no matter how much you want it for your own.

That's why the nerdy jumpers with the really hot GFs don't bring them to the DZs.

They know better.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[snowmman 3]

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I know I wont get post 666, and that's OK.

This is a skydiver forum. If something is desirable, another skydiver will make a run at it, no matter how much you want it for your own.

That's why the nerdy jumpers with the really hot GFs don't bring them to the DZs.

They know better.

377

That's weird. When I pick up their GFs at home while they're out jumping, the GF's always say they don't go to the DZ cuz it's boring...

[hangdiver 1]

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Weber also made the ejection seats for the USAF F 106 chase planes.

Ya, I found that also while researching decoy flares. I thought it might have been a decoy flare that arced across the night sky but I don't think they had them yet.
377, you probably have more facts on that than I do.

"Mans got to know his limitations"
Harry Callahan

[hangdiver 1]

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I know I wont get post 666, and that's OK.

I think snow's idea is good for page 665, all the regulars post once and give you (377) the first post on 666.
I want Cooper to appear as snow speculates, that might just do it. It's worth a try.

I once bought an old Ford van for work, that in another life was used to smuggle contraband in a false floor. I bought it from a guy who taught me to Hang Glide, a practicing Wizard/Satan worshiper. It had pentagrams and Satan stickers all over it. He also had some other weird shit in his house and a backyard alter.
I used the van for work, left all the stickers on it and was shocked at how many people wouldn't go near it for fear of being somehow possessed.
It was hilarious but kept the other workers from getting into my stuff.

"Mans got to know his limitations"
Harry Callahan

[snowmman 3]

hangdiver mentions "I once bought an old Ford van for work, that in another life was used to smuggle contraband in a false floor. I bought it from a guy who taught me to Hang Glide, a practicing Wizard/Satan worshiper."


See this is a perfect example of why you can't compete with skydivers telling stories.

I like how you take care to point out "in another life"...if Orange1 reads it carefully, "in another life" apparently refers to the van.

But if you read "in another life" as a reference to hangdiver, interesting possibilities emerge....

[snowmman 3]

We've talked about how training reserves (apparently the one in question) had panels sewn shut so they would be easier to deal with when training on the ground.

For the same reason, were the lines ever daisy chained, so that it would be fast to repack while training?

How fast did people repack reserves while training back in the late '60s? how many times did you have to practice with it?

(edit) ok I guess I'm showing my ignorance. I found this on field packing. Would it have been likely that the training reserve Cooper got, had daisy chained lines, if it had been used for training?

do people still do this after landing?

Field Packing the Canopy - Congratulations!! You've just made your first skydive. After you get done jumping up and down and hollering "WAHOOO!" We'll need that parachute back for the next student's first skydive experience. If your canopy lands on top of you, try not to walk through the lines. This makes repacking the parachute difficult. When the parachute collapses on you, stay still and pick the lines straight up and off of you. Then move away from the parachute to straighten out the lines again and gather it up. Once the lines are straightened you can 'daisy-chain' them. Daisy-chaining keeps the lines in order and will help you to get the parachute back to the packing area. This is done by making a loop with the lines, reach inside the loop, grab more lines past the loop and pull the lines through the loop to make a new loop. Continue this process until you reach the canopy and then pull the slider through the last loop to hold it in place. Daisy-chaining is best learned by watching your instructor perform this process and then practice it yourself.


Is the idea that you can stuff the canopy back in the rig with the lines like this? Did that work for the belly reserves?

[snowmman 3]

remember how I thought Petey was weird, because he said the FBI took a DNA sample from him in regards to Cooperdom, and the number of people we've heard about that have had DNA taken is incredibly small. And I just really wanted to know what that was like..I mean hear from someone who the FBI thought was worth investigating...how it went down.


Well, I'm been beating on the FBI for being bad investigators back in 1971, but I just got something, which is probably reliable (but could be faked, which would be even more curious if so)....

I had known Petey had been divorced and remarried. Well apparently in 1971 the FBI visited the divorced ex-wife, looking for Petey, but she didn't have a clue where he was. (he was outside US at the time)

So this is pretty interesting.

They apparently finally found petey when he returned to the US recently (couple years back)

But, it's an eye-opener for me. It's interesting to try to decode just how much Carr was telling us or not telling us.

When 377 forwarded the name to Carr, Carr brushed it off saying "he was probably investigated". But man, There must have been reports with his name on it, from what this says. Enough so that his name popped up and triggered a home visit just a couple years back.

How did that happen? Are the records computerized? Did someone read thru the files and remember a name? Is there a list of names of people the FBI is interested in, and they sweep the US occasionally or check on re-entry to country? I can't figure out how the FBI decided to talk to him a couple years back when he returned.

I still can't figure out what Carr was doing at DZ.com.
It makes no sense.

I have no idea what to think of the FBI now.

[skyjack71 0]

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Jo said " but I assure the actual flight pattern is forthcoming in the near future. "

That would be good. How?

Jo said "If I had known then what I know now"

What do you know now? I can't see that anything identifies the flight path more than the radar map? Am I missing something?

If people want to ignore that map, then there's nothing that identifies the flight path to any degree of accuracy.

I did NOT know there was any map that specifically lays out the flight path. What I have seen is all over the place - Jerry has one, Sluggo has one and there have been 2 others. So give me one that shows the ACTUAL flight path per the radar and Northwest and whoever or whatever governs this stuff.

Does one of those exist ? Did I miss something...if there actually a map put out by the FAA that shows the flight path?

There was even rumors one crew member gave a different description - SO what is true? Has there ever been an exact layout of the flight path? How many flight paths have been projected and which one is the one the FAA presented and Northwest?

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[snowmman 3]

I believe I have precedence in all matters regarding Cooper, due to my president-for-life position in the CSG. I have withstood many legal challenges to that claim, paying many lawyers, and paying off even more in bribes.

so when Jo asks "So give me one that shows the ACTUAL flight path per the radar and Northwest and whoever or whatever governs this stuff. "

...I say Snowmman Industries governs the flight path. Like I say to all new employees:

"Okay, here's the deal, I'm not here to waste your time. Okay, I certainly hope you're not here to waste mine, so I'm gonna keep this short. Become an employee of this firm, you will make your first million within three years. Okay, I'm gonna repeat that, you will make a million dollars, within three years of your first day of employment at Snowmman Industries. There's no question as to whether you become a millionaire working here. The only question is, how many times over. You think I'm joking . . . I am not joking. I am a millionaire. It's a weird thing to hear, right? Let me tell ya, it's a weird thing to say: I am a fucking millionaire. And guess how old I am . . . 27, you know what that makes me here? A fucking senior citizen. This firm is entirely comprised of people your age, not mine. Lucky for me, I happen to be very fuckin' good at my job or I'd be out of one. You guys are the new blood. You are the future swinging dicks of this firm. Now you all look money hungry and that's good. Anybody who tells you that money is the root of all evil, doesn't fucking have any. They say money can't buy happiness. Look at the fucking smile on my face! Ear to ear baby! You want details, fine. I drive a Ferrari 355 Cabriolet . . . I have a ridiculous house at the South Fork. I have every toy you could possibly imagine. And best of all, I am liquid. So now you know what's possible, let me tell you what's required. You are required to work your fucking ass off at this firm. We want winners here, not pikers. A piker walks at the bell. A Piker asks how much vacation time you get in the first year. Vacation time? People come to work at this firm for one reason, to become filthy rich, that's it. We're not here to make friends, we're not saving the fucking manatees here guys. You want vacation time, go teach third grade at a public school."

(edit) we did a video of our Cooper team
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zvICN8DNMpY