DB Cooper

[Orange1 0]

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Surely there is someone posting here who knows what the real tie tac, clasp or pin looked like. .

As has been mentioned a number of times, there is a picture of the actual tie and pin on the FBI website.

Edited to add: OK, I see Snow has already posted this fact.

(sigh) here is the link http://www.fbi.gov/page2/dec07/dbcooper123107.html
it's not "close up" but enough to see the type of tie pin clearly.

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[377 22]

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Scenery is in the "Water Tank" of building no. 260 of Manned Space Center near Houston, later renamed in Johnson Space Center.

All the US space flights and moon landings were faked Snow. That Houston tank was production central for most of the weightless shots. The NASA money for real space flights was funneled to the CIA.

It worked out really well. Apollo 13 was scripted beautifully by some of Hollywood's best.

Georger has blocked PMs from me. I was going to compliment him on his tinfoil humor.

Orange sure did raise an interesting point about Mayfield allegedly going out on a dinner date with his girlfriend right in the midst of a high drama hijack in which his real time expert advice might have been vital. Sounds very odd.

The benign folk hero image of Cooper ignores the bomb. I bet the crew and the FBI were worried that Cooper would set it to blow up the plane just after he exited. They had no way to know for sure if it was real or fake.

So in the midst of all this high stakes drama, Mayfield says sorry, I'll be out of touch for a while, I have a hot date. Hmmm...

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[Orange1 0]

Quote

Quote

Scenery is in the "Water Tank" of building no. 260 of Manned Space Center near Houston, later renamed in Johnson Space Center.

All the US space flights and moon landings were faked Snow. That Houston tank was production central for most of the weightless shots. The NASA money for real space flights was funneled to the CIA.

It worked out really well. Apollo 13 was scripted beautifully by some of Hollywood's best.

Georger has blocked PMs from me. I was going to compliment him on his tinfoil humor.

Orange sure did raise an interesting point about Mayfield allegedly going out on a dinner date with his girlfriend right in the midst of a high drama hijack in which his real time expert advice might have been vital. Sounds very odd.

The benign folk hero image of Cooper ignores the bomb. I bet the crew and the FBI were worried that Cooper would set it to blow up the plane just after he exited. They had no way to know for sure if it was real or fake.

So in the midst of all this high stakes drama, Mayfield says sorry, I'll be out of touch for a while, I have a hot date. Hmmm...

377

Yeah and let's not forget no-one had cellphones then!!

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[377 22]

Quote

(from Georger) This continual back-and-forth with Jo accomplishes
nothing and is counter productive. Silence would
be better.

I'll try that for a while Georger, but it's hard not to rise to the bait sometimes. You know that from personal experience.

Jo ought to take the olive branch and the polygraph challenge from Jerry. He said he'd pay for the test.

Ok, I'll now try a week or so of silence on Jo. It might be extended or truncated. I have a lower level of tolerance these days, too much coffee I guess.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[Orange1 0]

Quote

Ok, I'll now try a week or so of silence on Jo. It might be extended or truncated. I have a lower level of tolerance these days, too much coffee I guess.

377

if you try it, i'll try it too! Jerry, will you join us?

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[snowmman 3]

The New York Times, citing an unnamed senior law enforcement official, said authorities had uncovered a small group of people who espoused a militant ideology aligned with al Qaeda.

The raid was delayed as the FBI had to go around a rally headed by the Ohio Valley Freedom Fighters.

http://ovfreedomfighters.com/index.html

When asked for comment, U.S. House of Representatives member known as "snowmman" yelled "You Lie! Liars all! CIA, FBI, Apollo moon landing, DB Cooper, MK-Ultra".

Snowmman reported $1M in contributions recently to his political action committee SNOWPPAC, but denied reports of congressional investigations around the activities of Snowmman Industries. "First you investigate SMMI, next stop it's Karl Marx, and Josef Stalin...United States of Socialism!" said "snowmman".

Some Youtube rumors floated that Sarah Palin may be offered a position at Snowmman Industries. Shares in SMMI were up 4% on the news, with heavy trading from foreign markets, notably the JSE in Johannesburg, SA.

[georger 267]

Quote

Quote

(from Georger) This continual back-and-forth with Jo accomplishes
nothing and is counter productive. Silence would
be better.

I'll try that for a while Georger, but it's hard not to rise to the bait sometimes. You know that from personal experience.

Jo ought to take the olive branch and the polygraph challenge from Jerry. He said he'd pay for the test.

Ok, I'll now try a week or so of silence on Jo. It might be extended or truncated. I have a lower level of tolerance these days, too much coffee I guess.

377

I just think everything that can be
said has been said, a million times. The burden
has always been on Jo, and no one else. That's
my point of view, especially when there are other
things to do and areas still unexplored...

[georger 267]

Quote

Quote

Ok, I'll now try a week or so of silence on Jo. It might be extended or truncated. I have a lower level of tolerance these days, too much coffee I guess.

377

if you try it, i'll try it too! Jerry, will you join us?

Jerry will join!!!!!!!!!! Or !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Hee hee.

Seriously, I have no control over Jerry whatever -
only the power to make recommendations ... on
peril of .........

BTW, Ive embarked on one more thankless task.
Im making an edited version of the Websleuth
posts, something manageable in size but very
complete, but in simple text format. I would pass
the parts on to you for reading if you desire ...
give me at least a week or so to complete this
gruesome task.

[skyjack71 0]

To Orange and Snow:

I just wanted an upclose pic of the real Cooper Tie Clasp and I have always wondered WHY the FBI does not provide that on it's site. The pictures you guys were nice enough to post and make available were appreciated. I have a hard time with searches because of my eyes - the screen is very hard to see. Thank YOU ALL so very much.

I really try not to post anything related to Weber - but regardless of how generic my posts are - Jerry immediately comes in calling me a liar and badgering me. Go back and read what causes me to respond and my begging him to stop because it makes my posts repetitive...perhaps Jerry is the one you should reprimand. I think it is unfair to blame me - am I supposed to just succumb to his accusations? I have begged him to leave me alone and use his posts to advance the discovery process and not focus on me or Weber.

Such as the above 1st paragraph explaining I have never seen a CLOSE-UP of the real Clasp in the FBI's possession and wonder why. I thought maybe I had missed it.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[BruceSmith 3]

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Call me stupid, but please explain why the clasp on a cheap tie clasp is the case solver? What is next, i think we need to send Tina and Flo pictures of pants and ask them if Cooper buttoned or snapped his pants. it could deem important why he was in the bathroom so long. yes i am being sarsastic! I compare listening to Jo and Jerry go back and forth to two 10yr olds fighting? my theory is better than your theory. is not, is to, is not, is to, is not, Well your stupid, am not, am too, am not am too! I've got three words please, IGNORE EACH OTHER!
Now I have a couple of questions if we can answer that would be great. Jerry, did you know H before the Cooper case? We all have sombody in the back of our mind we lean to as Cooper. In name only please post who you lean to if you had to place a bet on it. Jerry & Bruce, i would especially be interested to see the name you post, I am betting Jerry is leaning to Webber HA!

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Since you've asked me, Sky: If I had to place a bet this very minute, I'd place it on Theodore B. Braden. But I wouldn't bet the ranch.

That said, I tend to think that Dan Cooper might be someone who has never been talked about, yet. My instincts, gut feelings, intuition, etc, tells me that this case is a lot crazier than we have yet to imagine it to be. I say that because there are too many lies, spin-jobs, silent witnesses, and unresponsive officials. At the very least, these distortions create a vacuum that allows wildly implausible theories with no supporting data whatsoever, such as the propeller transport idea, to receive fifteen minutes of air-time in the Nat Geo documentary.

It reminds me something I heard Ramtha, the Enlightened One say a while back: "Truth is always the first casualty of war."

We's at war, folks. The lies clearly tell us that, IMHO. But what is the struggle all about, eh?

• Quote

[snowmman 3]

we went over the tiebar photos a long time ago

what's wrong with this one?

Bruce said " I say that because there are too many lies, spin-jobs, silent witnesses, and unresponsive officials"

You lie! :)

Here's the problem Bruce: the Cooper case isn't unique. It's just one we talk about.
This amount of lying, incompetence, bullshit, happens all the time. See, this is the normal case!

(edit) Hey I don't remember anyone getting excited about the stores J.C. Penney had in Belgium in 1971 (Sarma). I thought that was pretty weird. Did people not believe this post? It was true.
I don't think they had any other overseas stores other than Belgium and Italy?

Overseas operations began in 1968–69, when it acquired Sarma, SA, a Belgian retail chain; and in 1971 it inaugurated stores in Italy under the name J.C. Penney, SpA.

85 Sarma-stores in Belgium by 1974.

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=3635760;search_string=sarma;#3635760

[georger 267]

It reminds me something I heard Ramtha, the Enlightened One say a while back: "Truth is always the first casualty of war."

[skyjack71 0]

Thanks for the picture of clasp.
I never saw the one of the close-up...but it still didn't have detail, but it looks rather NON descript.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[snowmman 3]

thought I'd revisit a tie bar comparison.

Comparing that photo of the FBI tiebar I just posted, to the 5 piece mother of pearl set Cooper gave me and said to "bury 7 feet deep".
(I cropped and overlayed the two photos)

It didn't mean anything to me at the time, but it does seem like a close match.

I mentioned that the 5 piece sets were advertised in newspapers at the time, around father's day, I noticed. They were cheap.

[Orange1 0]

Quote

The New York Times, citing an unnamed senior law enforcement official, said authorities had uncovered a small group of people who espoused a militant ideology aligned with al Qaeda.

The raid was delayed as the FBI had to go around a rally headed by the Ohio Valley Freedom Fighters.

http://ovfreedomfighters.com/index.html

When asked for comment, U.S. House of Representatives member known as "snowmman" yelled "You Lie! Liars all! CIA, FBI, Apollo moon landing, DB Cooper, MK-Ultra".

Snowmman reported $1M in contributions recently to his political action committee SNOWPPAC, but denied reports of congressional investigations around the activities of Snowmman Industries. "First you investigate SMMI, next stop it's Karl Marx, and Josef Stalin...United States of Socialism!" said "snowmman".

Some Youtube rumors floated that Sarah Palin may be offered a position at Snowmman Industries. Shares in SMMI were up 4% on the news, with heavy trading from foreign markets, notably the JSE in Johannesburg, SA.

Whatever you may say about Snow, he never loses his sense of humour Snow, I may not always comment on this type of post, but I am always smiling by the time I reach the end of one!

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[Orange1 0]

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That said, I tend to think that Dan Cooper might be someone who has never been talked about, yet.

I agree with Bruce on this (although not with this reasons why). However incompetent and bungling the FBI may have been along the way, I can't help thinking that if they had stumbled across Cooper, they would have realised it.

I also agree, I think, that Braden is the best of the bunch so far presented to us. But Braden only came up because some dogged poster here went looking for stuff; I bet there are a few others at the very least with similar (or "better") profiles.

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[Orange1 0]

Quote

Hey I don't remember anyone getting excited about the stores J.C. Penney had in Belgium in 1971 (Sarma). I thought that was pretty weird. Did people not believe this post? It was true.
I don't think they had any other overseas stores other than Belgium and Italy?

Overseas operations began in 1968–69, when it acquired Sarma, SA, a Belgian retail chain; and in 1971 it inaugurated stores in Italy under the name J.C. Penney, SpA.

I thought those were just "for interest" posts. Were you saying you think the Cooper tie may have been bought there? How globalised was the store-brand tie trade in those days?

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[snowmman 3]

Quote

Quote

Hey I don't remember anyone getting excited about the stores J.C. Penney had in Belgium in 1971 (Sarma). I thought that was pretty weird. Did people not believe this post? It was true.
I don't think they had any other overseas stores other than Belgium and Italy?

Overseas operations began in 1968–69, when it acquired Sarma, SA, a Belgian retail chain; and in 1971 it inaugurated stores in Italy under the name J.C. Penney, SpA.

I thought those were just "for interest" posts. Were you saying you think the Cooper tie may have been bought there? How globalised was the store-brand tie trade in those days?

You mean you thought I sometimes just make random posts that have no connection to the Cooper hijacking? Hmm..how can we prove if that is true or false?

Back to tie:
Dunno. What I can say is we have no data that says where the tie was bought. Saying it's obvious it was bought in the US is wrong. That's what my post says.

Not saying anything. Just odd.
It's odd Ted Braden had a Belgium connection.
It's odd the comic book has a Belgium connection.
It's odd that JC Penny had a small foreign reach, and it wasn't Canada, it was Belgium and Italy in that time frame.

I'll flip it.
Were you assuming the JC Penney tie was bought in the US?
We have no data that confirms that.
We have very little data on the tie.
A closeup of the various tags on it would be nice (some are evidence tags)

Tom the Scientist could have done this for us, to see if there was more info that could be used about the tie. But he didn't.

The tie has an interesting variant for the clip. It has just the metal hook, not the side arms. (someone mentioned the visible side arms (guess) in the Ted Braden photo (I think)...or where they just mentioning a hook?

[BruceSmith 3]

Quote

we went over the tiebar photos a long time ago

what's wrong with this one?

Bruce said " I say that because there are too many lies, spin-jobs, silent witnesses, and unresponsive officials"

You lie! :)

Here's the problem Bruce: the Cooper case isn't unique. It's just one we talk about.
This amount of lying, incompetence, bullshit, happens all the time. See, this is the normal case!

Quote

Yup, you're right.


(edit) Hey I don't remember anyone getting excited about the stores J.C. Penney had in Belgium in 1971 (Sarma). I thought that was pretty weird. Did people not believe this post? It was true.
I don't think they had any other overseas stores other than Belgium and Italy?

Overseas operations began in 1968–69, when it acquired Sarma, SA, a Belgian retail chain; and in 1971 it inaugurated stores in Italy under the name J.C. Penney, SpA.

85 Sarma-stores in Belgium by 1974.

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=3635760;search_string=sarma;#3635760

This is curious. Hmmm.

• Quote

[Orange1 0]

Quote

Saying it's obvious it was bought in the US is wrong. That's what my post says.

Not saying anything. Just odd.
It's odd Ted Braden had a Belgium connection.
It's odd the comic book has a Belgium connection.
It's odd that JC Penny had a small foreign reach, and it wasn't Canada, it was Belgium and Italy in that time frame.

I'll flip it.
Were you assuming the JC Penney tie was bought in the US?
We have no data that confirms that.
We have very little data on the tie.
A closeup of the various tags on it would be nice (some are evidence tags)

Yes I did assume it was bought in the US. There were still a lot more JCPenney stores there than anyone else so probability is ..but you are right, of course. It could have been bought in Belgium, assuming the ties were also shipped there.
You're American, in Belgium, looking to buy a tie. Where do you go? A store name you recognise. It makes perfect sense.

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[JerryThomas 0]

SKYWHUFFO> No I did not know, Ralph prior to Cooper .I actually was interested in the case year's before meeting Ralph. I did not discuss this case with the FBI untill 1989. Then I discussed it with Ralph for the first time . I believe it was the summer of 1990. As far as going back and fourth between two ten year' old's fighting ,I assure you it is not the same my purpose for debating JO is that some people may believe her . and just maybe the one person that may have information that could solve this case will not come forward for fear they could be wrong. This happen's in many investigation's when false Info is given to the public.Yor next Question as who I believe Cooper was. My Honest answer is that none of the suspect's discussed on dropzone is or could have been Cooper. The man that was Cooper is dead and died the night he jumped. I do believe that there is someone that has a missing relative from that time frame and has not come forward yet. That is the person we seek. Now option's are numerious. I have researched this case more than anyone I have researched all suspect's. I have done many test. talked to countless people spent more time on ground and searching than anyone .I had a corvette stollen and totataled That I left on one of my searche's of 2 day's and a Gold wing motorcycle.destroyed. I also have found many Item's And rescued a lot of lost hiker's. So you see. There is not much left about this case . Except to find remain's or for someone to come forward ,providing there not side tracked by false alligation's. Jerry

[JerryThomas 0]

Orange 1 I just read this post. Yes I'll be glad to honor this request . Do you think we can make it 2 month's This I will honor. Jerry. Ps I made a post before I read your's Orange1. As of this post your request is honored. Georger I hope not to many people are offended by my statement of who Cooper was .One more thing I did start my investigation on this case In 1975 while I was on leave. It was the summer. Of that year I did not get realy involved in the case untill 1989. After I retired . Jerry.

[georger 267]

Quote

thought I'd revisit a tie bar comparison.

Comparing that photo of the FBI tiebar I just posted, to the 5 piece mother of pearl set Cooper gave me and said to "bury 7 feet deep".
(I cropped and overlayed the two photos)

It didn't mean anything to me at the time, but it does seem like a close match.

I mentioned that the 5 piece sets were advertised in newspapers at the time, around father's day, I noticed. They were cheap.

Key word is sets. These items were often (maybe most often) sold in sets at JC Penny. So where
are the cufflinks that go with the tie clasp? Did he
have cufflinks on? (I dont recall any report on
this) ?

[skyjack71 0]

Quote

thought I'd revisit a tie bar comparison.

Comparing that photo of the FBI tiebar I just posted, to the 5 piece mother of pearl set Cooper gave me and said to "bury 7 feet deep".
(I cropped and overlayed the two photos)

It didn't mean anything to me at the time, but it does seem like a close match.

I mentioned that the 5 piece sets were advertised in newspapers at the time, around father's day, I noticed. They were cheap.

You are so good - how and where do you find this stuff? I thought maybe the tie tac was oval, but from what you posted with the comparisons available on the market in 1971 appears it was probably round.

Himmelsbach had said it was a pearl onlay - and we now know his description was dead on.

Jo coming forth with the story about her husband - actually created new leads regarding other suspects. Christiansen, Gossett, Dan Cooper (TX) and Braden among a long growing list are the results of media and internet searches generated by the interest in Duane Weber. Cook and Grey were communicating with Jo before they went public.

There was also 3 others suspects that never made the news. Two of these contacted Jo Weber because they were afraid of going thru the very same things she did and another was presented in Suite 101 several yrs ago. All were advised to contact the FBI and provided the contact numbers. Even the Mayfield accusation came as a result of the Unsolved Mysteries forum - his accusers posted on that site...2 men and one woman. Forum names are Awsee, Popeye, awsi and dbcoopercatcher.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[georger 267]

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Orange 1 I just read this post. Yes I'll be glad to honor this request . Do you think we can make it 2 month's This I will honor. Jerry. Ps I made a post before I read your's Orange1. As of this post your request is honored. Georger I hope not to many people are offended by my statement of who Cooper was .One more thing I did start my investigation on this case In 1975 while I was on leave. It was the summer. Of that year I did not get realy involved in the case untill 1989. After I retired . Jerry.

Sounds good to me.

Jerry and I disagree about whether Cooper lived
and escaped or not. Until I see evidence that
confirms a death, the question remains open
for me. I do not take the money at Tina Bar
as evidence Cooper perished.